Cheers To The Big East, The Best 19-Year Fling The WVU Mountaineers Ever Had
As this whole WVU-to-the-Big XII saga played out, one of the most fascinating things for me to observe has been the varied reactions among the WVU fan base. The problem with the move to the Big XII seemed to be the anger it evoked from the Big East brass and other members of the conference. And I can understand why they would be upset, losing their flagship program just after two founding members decided to leave for greener pastures. I'm just sad it had to end that way.
I'm not saying the Big East is without blame here. Far from it. The Big East is and has always been a basketball league. The football conference was handicapped from the start after Penn State was rebuked and decided to pack its wagon, ford the Ohio, and start a farm. Say what you want about the ACC raid in 2004, but since then, the Big East has had several opportunities to improve its football and was negligent (at best) in failing to do that. The recent additions are too little, too late, and if we're being honest, probably weren't enough to keep WVU, Pitt and Syracuse in the conference anyway.
But is all this really deserving the anger that many Mountaineer fans have toward the conference? After all, the Big East has provided the springboard by which WVU became the school it is today (in football and men's and women's basketball especially, to say nothing of the olympic sports). Should WVU fans be as bitter toward John Marinatto and the remaining conference members as many are showing? I, for one, don't think so.
In the interest of full disclosure, I'm not that old in the context of the history of WVU athletics. I was at WVU during the start of the "golden era" of Mountaineer sports, which included the Sugar Bowl and Elite Eight seasons. I wasn't even alive during the dark ages of the 70's. But I think I have a decent grasp on how WVU got to that point.
Yes, WVU has had some success over its history---a Sugar Bowl and Final Four in the 50's, a couple Sweet Sixteens in the 60's, a Fiesta Bowl in the 80's, and a Sugar Bowl and Sweet Sixteen in the 90's. That's it. Success? Sure. Fleeting? Definitely. Before 1980, WVU was best described as a regional program. It was able to compete with similarly-situated schools, but nobody was going to confuse it with Ohio State, USC, Texas, UCLA, or North Carolina.
West Virginia was accepted into the Big East conference and began full round-robin football play in 1993 and basketball play in 1995. Certainly the tenure of Don Nehlen was a huge factor in WVU becoming a national program in football. However, the structure of college football was altered fundamentally in the early 1990's when the SEC and Big XII expanded, the Southwest Conference dissolved, and most of the Eastern Independents joined conferences.
At that point, it was no longer viable for WVU to remain an independent in football and still play a competitive schedule while maintaining the necessary revenue streams to improve facilities, pay coaches, and sustain a quality program. Problem was, West Virginia was simply not an attractive option to other conferences.
The Big East provided a more than adequate home (actually, it was the best option available) at a time when many Mountaineer fans thought we would be better off competitively in Conference USA. However, new Big East revenue streams and the ability to play quality competition on a consistent basis helped elevate WVU's programs. In the early 1990's when WVU entered the conference, it lagged behind Miami and Syracuse in football and pretty much everyone in men's and women's basketball. And for the first decade of play, that was pretty much the pattern.
But a funny thing happened when Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College left for the ACC. The football power vacuum left by those departures, coupled with the hirings of two excellent coaches in John Beilein and Rich Rodriguez, gave WVU the chance to be the Big East's flagship football program and to compete in basketball at a level it never had before. And the Mountaineers took full advantage, finishing first or second in football every year since 2003 and making (and winning) 3 BCS bowl games. The basketball team has enjoyed unprecedented success as well, making the NCAA tournament (including two Sweet Sixteens, an Elite Eight, and a Final Four) every year since 2005 except the 2007 NIT championship season. That level of success would not have been possible but for WVU's fortuitous inclusion in the Big East, and, one could argue, the departure of those three schools to the ACC.
So really, given the way things have turned out, WVU likely would not be in the position to get an invitation to the Big XII if it wasn't for the Big East's invitation back in the 1990's. Sure, things looked bleak as of late as long time rivals departed and the possibility that WVU could be left to compete with UCF, Houston, and San Diego State on a yearly basis became more real. And I certainly understand the gnashing of teeth over the Big East's attempt to prevent WVU from leaving immediately for the Big XII, but really...what was the Big East to do at that point? They were just protecting themselves, albeit vindictively, in a desperate situation with their backs against the wall. I can't blame them for that.
I know it's tempting and fun to throw up a middle finger to the Big East as we grab the bottle of Jameson and kick down the door, but really...what do we have against them? Yes, we did our part to step up and "save" the football conference. But we may never have had that opportunity had Miami and Virginia Tech not left. We wouldn't be who we are today---including leaving for a far better position in the Big XII---if the Big East hadn't given us the chance to be in a BCS conference to begin with. There's no sense in adding insult to injury by gloating about taking the very opportunity that Big East membership helped prepare us for. So please join in me raising a glass to the Big East conference---the best 19-year fling the Mountaineers ever had.
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I have no issue
with the remaining members or the Big East as a whole. I do, however, despise Marinatto. I believe he made a mess of this entire situation and made himself and the remaining members look like complete asses. The Big East was the stage we used to get us to where we are now. I love playing teams like Louisville, Cincy, Pitt, ’Cuse, etc. I wish the Big East had been more proactive in the football aspect.
I think having a conference where every school doesn’t participate in every sport (i.e. the Catholic League) was doomed from the start. WVU and St. John’s are never going to have the same agenda.
I wish the remaining members nothing but the best. I really hope Louisville and Cincy join us in the Big XII, that would be fantastic. I hope Rutgers continues it’s climb out of the gutters. I also hope USF lives up to it’s potential. I think ’Cuse and Pitt both have the potential to really compete in the ACC with the right guidance, especially PItt because I think Chryst was a grade A hire for them as a head coach.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 15, 2012 11:12 AM EST reply actions
I also think
it was a mistake to let Notre Dame be anything less than 100% committed to the league as a whole. They have enourmous value as a football program, but as a basketball program they’re not that special. We should have forced them into playing both sports as league members, or forcing them out of the Big East in basketball. In not doing so we put them in a position of power that they in no way deserved to be in.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 15, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Notre Dame
I think you are over-looking the strength of ND’s non-major sports programs. From top to bottom they are one of the best athletics programs around. From soccer, hockey, lacrosse to track and other lesser sports, they are a strong program for the BE. By trying to force them in for football or leave, the choice for them would have been easy. Was the BE going to guarantee them $10 million a season in tv rights? Because they get that and more for home games only from NBC.
"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup" - Terry Pegula
by willgarr15 on Feb 15, 2012 1:51 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Non-revenue sports
help little in the overall scheme. Football is where the money is. As is basketball. If Notre Dame had committed from the start, the likelihood of losing Virginia Tech, Boston College, Miami, etc would have been much, much less. In fact with the support of Notre Dame, and if we had a forward thinking commissioner, the Big East could have been the one poaching the ACC.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 15, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Things change
Just because the Big East was good for WVU 30 years ago means nothing today. Business relationships, which is what this is, are about what have you done for me lately. And lately, the BIg East has made all decisions for the benefit of the basketball only schools and to the detriment of the football schools. Because of this failure by the BE, and because of the continued success of WVU athletics, the Eers have a better option they would be foolish not to jump on.
$20 million bucks? I guess the old saying is “Do you know why divorces are so expensive? Because they are worth it.”
I'm not saying WVU shouldn't have left.
We absolutely should have left. And leaving was well worth the $20 million price tag. But it’s not like WVU was this awesome football and basketball powerhouse that was reduced to rubble due to the Big East’s mismanagement.
Actually, now that we’re off to the Big XII, I can’t think of a single way WVU was harmed by the Big East. Unless you count losing traditional rivals as being harmed, maybe?
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Feb 15, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
But it’s not like WVU was this awesome football and basketball powerhouse that was reduced to rubble due to the Big East’s mismanagement.
because of tcu leaving, as well as pitt and cuse this was bound to happen. had wvu stuck around they absolutly would have been harmed.
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Feb 15, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
"Had WVU stuck around..."
I agree with you that things were looking bleak going forward, and WVU simply had to get out. But we not only got out, we improved our position. So there is no harm. There could have been, but there wasn’t. Thus, it’s a win for WVU. I don’t feel bad for the Big East but I’m certainly not going to be bitter about it either.
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Feb 15, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Here's an analogy:
You get of of college and are looking for a job and this small plastics company gives you a chance in sales. Some of the better sales people leave, and you get the opportunity to take over for them. You do a great job and before long, you’re one of the top sales people in the company. But the company’s president is a dolt and doesn’t really want to grow at all. So you’re stuck in a decent job with no real upward mobility.
Then, one of the engineers and another veteran salesperson both leave and the company looks to be on shaky footing. One of the company’s competitors—-who is larger and more profitable, but never gave you an interview coming out of school because you didn’t have enough experience—-offers you a job with a higher salary and better benefits. You accept the job, but the old company (sensing how valuable you are to its bottom line) tries to make you ride out the duration of your contract. Eventually, you strike a deal to forego some of your bonus pay so you can start making more money at the new job sooner.
Are you going to be that mad at your former company for trying to protect itself when things got desperate? Or are you going to appreciate that they gave you your first job and that you had the chance to excel there (despite the poor management) enough to get a better job somewhere else? If it’s me, I’m not going to waste my time being bitter. But maybe that’s just me.
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Feb 15, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if i had any sense of loyalty to said company
absofrgginloutly. his incompetence just made me leave a good job that I enjoyed doing, leave long time co-workers, friends, and people that i respected. Many of us here have defended the big east at length. we watched as the BE continued to win its bowl games, continued to have a better OOC record then some other aq conferences, and went ape shit when the pundits would say x team is having a down year because a BE team beat them. Fatheads incompetence may have ended one of the most storied rivalries in college sports, forced out players and team to get frequent flyer cards, and allowed the conference its self to become a laughing stock. I am glad to be gone, but had this guy not been such an imbecile the BE could have been a great basketball AND football conference. As it is, they are now CUSa with an auto bid
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Feb 15, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough.
You raise some good points. I’m just wired differently, I guess.
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Feb 15, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I can see both sides.
I’m thankful for the opportunity, but at some point you have to look out for yourself. That shaky company ain’t feeding your kids or paying your bills.
It’s a selfish world we live in where we have to ourselves and loved ones first sometimes over choosing something like loyalty.
I was loyal to my last company even though they tried to push me into a decade old system using decade old code. Loyalty wasn’t enough for me to hinder the progress of my career. I found something else that allows me to grow and learn new things. Now I’m happier than Paula Dean cooking with ample amounts of butter.
Same thing applied to WVU. We were not going to win a national title being in the BE. The BCS would never allow it. Even if we finished undefeated and beat ranked opponents. The Big 12 gives us a better shot. We still might get snubbed because the BCS is fucking wack, but we still gotta better chance in the Big 12. I have no hate for the BE. I have defended it to no end. I just wish it would have done the same for us in all aspects of the conference instead of just bball.
by TCfromDubVee on Feb 15, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair,
we were one game away from playing in a BCS NCG in 2007, and that was with one loss in the BE.
Its not about being bitter
But its also not about being sad to be leaving. It’s just business, as the old saying goes. The Big East isnt like some ex-girlfriend that you think about sometimes and it makes you sad. They are a business opportunity that ran its course and it is time to move on, with a clean break, to the next one.
Do I appreciate the Big East? Sure. But that appreciation should go both ways, both parties effected the other positively, and frankly, WVU was more positive for the Big East than vice versa considering we single handedly lent credibility to the football conference. So we are heading to the BIg XII and i see no reason to take a look in the rear view for the tire fire we are leaving behind.
I'm not sad to be leaving.
Not in the least. That’s why I’m raising my glass and looking forward to bigger and better things.
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Feb 15, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Opportunity cost
Since 2003, WVU has been in a conference that has been perceived as second-rate. 8 years of paltry revenue, 8 years of athletic department building that was lost because the Big East wouldn’t provide its football members with what it should have and could have. When Miami, VT, and BC left, there was no reason the ACC should have been able to lure them away, other than they took action and the Big East didnt. Then, instead of growing the football conference to 10 or even 12 to stabilize it, they stood firm at 8 and waited for the next conference (again, the ACC) to come take what it wanted. Now the Big East is back to desperately trying to stablize itself.
If your standard is “didnt reduce member schools to rubble” then of course, I agree with you. If the standard for a conference is, as it should be, “did everything possible to advance the interests of its members, in all sports, but in particular the one sport that drives revenue,” then the Big East certainly harmed WVU by being derelict in that duty for the last 8 years.
Agree with you on most points.
And again, I’m not saying that the Big East was the ideal scenario. But I do think it was the best available scenario. If you take away WVU’s membership in the Big East, do you think we’re in the same or better position today?
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Feb 15, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
That depends on a lot of factors
Im not old enough to remember what the options were back in 1993. I am fairly certain that WVU would probably not have viewed it as a great opportunity if it had known at the time that conference leadership would repeatedly fail to react aggressively when other conferences decide to raid it, and that all conference decisions would be driven by schools without football programs, all of which you mention in your column.
None of this, or any of my comments, have anything to do with flipping a middle finger to the Big East. I really am agnostic towards them and have no ill-will towards any of them (except Pitt). I am quite happy that Mr. Marinatto dropped the ball so badly, as it allowed WVU the opportunity to go to a great conference rather than stay in one that was somewhere between “putrid” and “as good as the ACC” which are just 2 different degrees of sucking.
I suppose my only real problem with your column is the contention that WVU should be greatful to the Big East for even allowing us the chance to BE a great athletics program. WVU has done more for the Big East than vice versa. The Big East should have paid us a Conference Ligitimacy Fee upon our exit.
As far as problems with column’s go, that one is pretty minor.
I think his point was that we should have some gratitude to the Big East for helping us get to where we are today. Particularly on the basketball side. There was no reason in hell that they should have accepted us based on where our b-ball team was at that point. Or for that matter, our football team.
Miami, VT, Pitt and Syracuse used to whip us with regularity in the early 90’s. I am old enough to remember, and we were a 2nd tier BE school. Plus, in those days, no one saw the crazy realignment scenarios we are seeing today. Sure, I agree that with the first raid, it would have been nice to grab some other teams to strengthen the conference. But the bottom line is we have gotten more from being in the Big East than we have suffered.
We do not live to be able to eat and make money. We eat and make money to be able to enjoy life. That is what life means and that is what it is for.
--George Leigh Mallory
I agree to some extent. I refuse to get sentimental about our time
in the mismanaged conference. Yes, membership was beneficial for us; but our membership and teams were also highly beneficial and profitable for the conference. I’ll just revamp my post from yesterday to be more inclusive.
Thanks Big East……Hey ACC and SEC…….

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?
Marrianatto Gets Too Much Blame
The Big East dying is 90% Tanghese and 10% Marianatto. Tranghese was incompetent for 20 years. Marianatoo for 2 years. By the time Marianatto took over in 2009, the league was on its death bed. All he did was put the final bullet in the league.
When We Joined the Conference
Many in the conference felt we were not good enough to be there. Now they don’t want us to leave.
Funny how things change.
I agree...
Great article, though I don’t buy that Penn State football argument, they sought basketball entry for 1982… a decade before the schools with football even put together a football division. I dunno if I believe their entry would have resulted in any other outcome with football in the 90’s and basically raising program profiles and moving on to bigger pastures.
I like sports, movies, and music!
I actually have to side with Paterno in this case (and only this case, and only partially)
he wanted to create an Eastern All Sports league around the time frame given and was reportedly shot down by Pitt and Syracuse (among others?). I say partially because I have also seen that the reason he was shot down was because that he wanted it set up so that PSU would have a dominant say and share of revenues. I wasn’t old enough to know what was going on back then and with no coverage like we have today with the internet…who knows what completely happened?
Regardless of how it went down
Penn State’s absence from any eastern conference involving football was going to lead to instability. They were the dominant eastern program of that era and would have anchored the conference. Maybe Miami and VT still leave in 2004, but I think the landscape looks different if PSU was in it from the start.
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Feb 16, 2012 7:35 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think VT and Miami
leave a conference with Penn State. Even after they lost their dominance, they were still Penn State. Perennially ranked and respected (until Sandusky happened.)
I put Penn State and Notre Dame in the same basket, of sorts. If Notre Dame football had been in the Big East to anchor the conference, VT and Miami wouldn’t have left. The Big East would have been in the position of power.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 16, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
A few things that come to memory about our time in the conference:
-Notre Dame getting our Gator Bowl bid in 2002.
-Big East basketball officials allowing Pitt to throw their weight arounds on the court, a style of play that no other conference allows.
-Big East basketball officials giving Notre Dame a handjob in every game we’ve ever played against them.
-Adding Marquette and Depaul instead of ECU or another football school after the 2003 ACC raid
-Villanova almost becomes a football addition, and ‘maybe’ they can get the rights to play in a soccer stadium that seats 18k.
-Notre Dame heads the committee to select Pitt/Cuse’s replacements.
-Adding the likes of San Diego State as opposed to other ‘better’ football schools on the east coast.
How about f-ck the Big East?

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