West Virginia Filing Suit vs. Big East
A separate tweet from Hoppy Kercheval, stated "WVU suit against BE claims 'lack of leadership, breach of fiduciary duties by the Big East and its commissioner.'"
7 months ago
WVUIE97
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Maybe
Pitt amd Syracuse should do the same.
by PicktownMountie on Oct 31, 2011 3:57 PM EDT reply actions
this is a bad idea
i want WVU in the Big 12
looking forward to games between TTU & WVU
but this lawsuit is bad for everyone, WVU, Big 12, Big East, fans of college football everywhere
and it may not get settled in time for the 2012 play anyway
bad idea
wonder if WVU’s willingness to sue was what got them the edge over Louisville
I think outperforming Louisville in every category but men's basketball income
was what got them the edge over Louisville.
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by TheMattROb on Oct 31, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Fracas
this is just a preemptive strike to negotiate a divorce between WVU and the Big Least. WVU doesn’t want anything from the Big Least but out, and a lot of sports and legal analysts are pointing out that WVU has quite the argument.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Oct 31, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
this
they do have quiet the arguement. the current commish’s only job is to improve the BE. he has done quiet the opposite watching TCU bolt. then rather then head off any other moves by current members he watches Pitt and Cuse bolt. only then did he try and do something, by then it was to little to late. adding the teams he proposes to add only make the BE a slightly better CUSA and that is debatable at best.
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Oct 31, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
another point to go along with the above:
the exit fee would have gone up ONLY once the conference reached 12(fact check) football schools. there was nothing in place to keep current schools in place. whos to say what would have happened if UL, RU, or UCONN bolted? There certainly is ontihing in place now to keep them in the league with a paltry 5mil exit fee and the likes of powerhouse schools like UCF navy and air force as hopeful additions.
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Oct 31, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This started
long before Pitt and Cuse bolted…I don’t blame them in the least iota
by WVUIE97 on Oct 31, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The commissioner's
easily. He did NOTHING to make the Big East attractive, and the AQ bid has been in question for a while now. He lets the basketball schools control everything.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Oct 31, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
the legal argument is a joke
To prove a “breach of fiduciary duty” you basically have to show that Marianotto was dreadfully below the work of a typical person in the same job. Marianotto inherited a Big East that was dead the moment Miami signed on the with ACC. There was nothing he nor any other human could have done as commissioner to prevent this. The suit is an embarrassment to the university.
shenanigans
its called go out and fetch a school that was worth a darn. the window was WIDE open to do just that after WVU won BOTH of its bcs bowls. for about a 3 year window everybody EVERYBODY said the BE was up and coming with the likes of WVU and PITT. PITT never materialized, BS ddnt continue the success of old, and there you go. window shut conference dead. calling this lawsuit is a joke is an insult to comedians. seriously there was a time when UL, RU, and WVU were all top notch schools in football.
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Nov 1, 2011 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
You're kidding right?
There is no school the Big East could’ve added, short of Notre Dame or Texas or bringing back BC and Miami, that would’ve prevented Syracuse and Pitt from going to the ACC. And there was absolutely no way any of those schools would’ve gone to Big East football because Louisville, Rutgers, and WVU had good seasons.
The commissioner is certainly inept. All you have to do is look at the fact that he STILL hasn’t invited anyone to the Big East, and didn’t file a declaratory judgment against WVU immediately. He DOES pander to the basketball schools and is generally an idiot.
BUT, I agree that there isn’t a whole lot he could have done. Other BCS schools weren’t coming to the league. Everyone has been looking for a way out for a long time. He had no control over Pitt hiring Wandstedt or WVU hiring Stewart or Louisville hiring the Krag or Syracuse hiring Gerg, all of whom effecetively killed or stalled the league’s premier programs.
The lawsuit is merely to hasten a settlement because the Big East refuses to negotiate (another example of incompetance).
That and there are plenty of good programs that are playing non-BCS football at that time
UCF, ECU, TCU, SMU, U of Miami, Ohio U, So Miss, Troy has always been solid. There are schools out there, you just have to go get them.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"I got the machine gun blues" Social D
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Nov 1, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Edge over Louisville went like this (allegedly)....
when the news hit the Senate offices of Joe Manchin and Jay Rockefeller; alledgedly, Rockefeller went to Mitch McConnell who had called his ole buddy former Senator David Bornin (President of Oklahoma) to assist in kiboshing WVU’s effort for a Big 12 seat and promote the seat to go to Univ. Louisville (McConnell’s alma mater). Rockefeller told McConnell, ok you wanted an investigation of the BCS – fine you got one! (Rockefeller Chairs the Committee in the Senate who would do the investigation) AND the lead topic is Sentatorial interference of BCS Conference business and YOU will be the lead off witness. DEAD SILENCE. Oklahoma retracted its support on this round for Louisville and Texas prevailed as they strongly stated to Oklahoma their desire to stand behind the invitation to WVU. The Conference suffered great embarrassment for extending the invite then saying hold up. Threads on KY blogs clearly showed that McConnell was not popular and deepened his reelection troubles for his actions. Joe Manchin was on tv with a carefully crafted statement that backed Rockefeller up to help shut McConnell up.
If that's true, it's pretty badass.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
not really
it goes to show how easily corrupted the system is imo.
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Nov 1, 2011 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I've
heard something similar, but from my dad, who knows someone personally on Rockefeller’s staff. According to that source, Rockfeller called in the chief lobbyist of Disney (owns ABC and ESPN) and asked if he wanted a senate committee investigation (meaning a subpoena for phone records, e-mails, etc. which could lead to evidence of tampering by ESPN/ABC/Disney). Next thing you know, WVU is in the Big XII, on Friday I might add, three days before anything was to happen.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 1, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Which is why
The entire conference should file a class action suit against the Big East. Of course that won’t happen but the Big East conference did nothing to save the league until it was too late. What were the schools supposed to do?
by PicktownMountie on Oct 31, 2011 6:09 PM EDT reply actions
according to the BE...
bend over and take it like a man
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Oct 31, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't think a class action would fly. Too few members. Needs to be more than 25.
Members of the class are probably too specific, too. Though they should join and file against the Big East. Makes no sense not to. Just dissolve the league now.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
correct
a class action doesn’t work like that, no offense PicktownMountie. I do like the idea; never hurts to get more schools involved. Pitt and Cuse could file a joint action.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 1, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
The law usually finds ways to solve things with money.
Damages is the main goal. The Big East will get paid and go away.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
It would be great
if damages got flipped and the Big East was awarded sanctions for this frivolous lawsuit.
by spitball27 on Oct 31, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOLZ
silly me i thought you actually had a dog in this fight. BC…lol
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Nov 1, 2011 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions
What if the ACC or SEC came around to WVU?
Would WVU live up to its commitments to the Big 12, or point to the 4 teams that are leaving, file suit, and try to jump to a better ship? Maybe first increasing penalty clauses for the conference, and then jumping ship? Is there a WVU fan out there that admits to this hypocrisy and is ashamed of this lawsuit?
perhaps reading between the lines
and knowing the backstory would be a good idea before coming in here and calling the school or its fans hypocrits. you can bet that question would be up in the air if it was the SEC, no chance it would bail on the big XII if it was the ACC
" Lord Stanley, scratch their names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Nov 1, 2011 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, oldtime.
hawkisdead, before insulting the school, pretend like you know maybe HALF of what is going on behind the scenes, because you don’t, none of us do. People on these boards want to pretend we know what’s best for our programs and get mad when our programs do differently. I’m guilty of this, too. But we don’t know what is going on behind the scenes. These people, Oliver Luck and his staff, have the education and experience to know what the fuck we’re doing. I’m in military intelligence. I don’t know shit about running an athletic department.
Jumping ship from the Big XII is A LOT different than the Big Least. The Big XII is still a viable, working conference despite it’s drama. The Big Least is not. There is NO room for growth in the Big Least. Even the best program, i.e. West Virginia or Boise State, would be grow stagnant in the Big East and would cease to grow. I’m not saying WVU will never defect to the SEC should they come calling. Why? Geography’s sake, and the Big XII, I’m sure, was aware of this possibility upon inviting us. But as long as the program is cashing those checks and being competitive, I don’t see why they would leave.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Nov 1, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
So, the answer is no?
I was pointing out the hypocrisy of WVU putting in place rules governing the exit of the conference for everyone else, then leaving the conference, then suing to avoid the rules it put in place. I wasn’t calling out the fans for this decision, only asking if any would man up to the hypocrisy. I guess not.
To answer your question:
1. WVU has to look out for WVU. It had to solidify the league that it was currently in to the best of its ability, which it did by voting to increase the exit fee and 27-month period (which is the real issue here, anyway) in 2008.
2. Despite doing the best it could with its current situation, it would have been negligent for WVU brass not to be on the lookout for a better situation. That’s what happened in the B12.
3. The precipitating event in the filing of the lawsuit was the departure of Pitt and Syracuse and, to a certain extent, TCU. The departure of those schools meant the current Big East isn’t the same Big East WVU signed up for and had voted to increase the exit fees and 27-month period in 2008. That’s the whole point of the lawsuit – we didn’t get the benefit of the bargain, thus the contract is void.
4. Criticizing the merits of the lawsuit (in my completely speculative opinion) misses the entire point of the suit, which is to force the Big East into a negotiation. The B12 needs WVU next year, and WVU wants to get out ASAP. Thus, they want to negotiate some way to make that happen, even if it means paying more money than what was bargained for.
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Nov 1, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, WVU is the poor victim with no responsibility
Points 1&2 – OK, fine. Leave. Its is the right of WVU to do so. Just live up to the exit terms you put in place.
3 – Weak argument. It will be proven so.
4 – Unseemly tactics. But it will all play out in the end, and WVU will be accountable for its actions.
Agree to disagree on 4. And honestly, I don’t think the Big East has anything to gain from keeping WVU (or Pitt or Syracuse) around for another 2 years. What’s the benefit there? How does it look if one of those teams takes the BCS bid in one or both years, reaping the money, exposure, prestige, etc. that comes along with it? Why not move on with new teams and allow those new teams a shot at the BCS?
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Nov 2, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
It has not yet been revealed
as to whether WVU voted in favor of the 27-month waiting period for exiting members. They may not have supported it, so until it is proven that they did, there is not any hypocrisy.
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by TheMattROb on Nov 1, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, if they didn't vote for it, it would have been one of their claims
Another weak claim, but a claim
There's no hypocrisy.
Marinatto breached his duty by kowtowing to the interests of the non-football schools to the detriment of the football schools. What other explanation is there for the asinine plan to elevate the Nova program? All that would do is harm the interests of the football schools by lowering the overall quality of the league for BCS evaluation purposes. Being forced to remain in a league where the leader is actively indulging the financial interests of one kind of member to the potential ruination of the other class of member is an unconscionable application of the contract and will be rightly invalidated.
Then why didn't WVU call for the commish to be removed?
…and instead just quit? Because that is not the real argument, but only an argument of convenience to justify the real interest. Money. It can blind perspective, and obviously the recognition of hypocrisy.
Who said they haven't?
We don’t know what’s happened behind closed doors at Big East meetings. Likely, if they have, or even would have…they would have been shot down by the non-football (read: basketball) schools, who by default of Pitt and Cuse leaving, have an easy majority.
by WVUIE97 on Nov 1, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes. If it has come down to a lawsuit that is getting national headlines
imagine how much (failed) negotiation went on in private meetings first. I can’t imagine WVU said “Good morning, I wanted to let you know we are leaving for the Big 12, and here’s a lawsuit.”
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by TheMattROb on Nov 1, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
With all the mud WVU threw on the wall with the lawsuit...
Don’t you think they would have mentioned it?
This is as frivolous a law suit as you can get.
It work work because it has no merit at all. The by-laws don’t get vacated because you lost a voting majority on your side. You don’t get to say I no longer like the league so they must let me leave outside the rules that I voted for as a member. Everyone else has been held to whatever the exit guidelines were. The Court system will not allow WV to do otherwise. Makes WV look bad.
The suit has some legs. We'll see what the lawyas negotiate.
I’d rather be in the Big 12 and supposedly look bad, than to have to wake up to the stinking reality of the Big East.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Since when do you clowns care about football?
West Virginia fans hate everybody. They remember every snub and joke and bit of snark. And they never forgive, and they never, ever forget. In other words, they're a lot like West Virginians in general.
by Kid Tenderloin on Nov 1, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Redmen
I’m glad you know so much more about the laws and policies of the Big East than apparently the lawyers and athletic directors do.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Nov 1, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
For the record:
TCU was never held to any kind of exit guideline. Whether they should have been or not is a whole other ball of wax, but they weren’t, and that’s part of the basis for the lawsuit.
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Nov 1, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The case (in the unlikely event it ever comes to trial)
Will be in Monongalia County court. Good luck with that, Marinatto.
DickRod’s lawyers failed to get a transfer to Federal court, btw.
West Virginia fans hate everybody. They remember every snub and joke and bit of snark. And they never forgive, and they never, ever forget. In other words, they're a lot like West Virginians in general.
but isn't a conference
interstate commerce?
i think it has a higher chance of going federal rather than rod’s suit against wvu
btw, this thing may take 6 months regardless who win or lose
given its november already
i doubt wvu can start Big 12 play in 2012 regardless of who win the case
Eh
I doubt that. For the record, WVU is trying to argue it is not a citizen of WVU, and so diversity doesn’t apply, meaning this can’t go to federal court. I’m not familiar enough with this particular point of law to say anything for sure, but WVU’s argument/basis seems tenuous at best.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 1, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
DickRod’s lawyers failed to get a transfer to Federal court, btw.
DickRod was a WV citizen and WVU an entity in WV. There was no diversity and no federal issue. Here WVU is (despite their argument) a citizen of WV and the Big East a citizen of D.C. Diversity applies and it could be removed to federal court.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 1, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the issue is whether WVU is a citizen or an arm of the State of West Virginia.
Either way, though, I understand there to be federal jurisdiction when a state (e.g. WV) sues a citizen of another state (e.g. the Big East Conference). If the Big East had sued WVU, on the other hand, then there would not be federal jurisdiction. I could be wrong about that, though. I played a lot of solitaire in Fed Courts.
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Nov 1, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
For
the record… I’m only in my second year of law school, but at first blush this lawsuit is a crapshoot at best.
It’s gonna be tough sledding proving a breach of fiduciary duty. I think WVU’s best shot is the 8-8 ratio of football to non-football schools and the imbalance that resulted. However, even though any sane college football fan would argue the Big East took too long adding other schools, I don’t think a court will see it that way. Again, I’m simply stating what I believe what the court’s position will be; that the Big East was not given ample time by WVU to fix the 8-8 imbalance.
One of WVU’s better arguments lies in point 66, “WVU has suffered a failure of consideration” and the “unanticipated burden” put on WVU. This is different than a breach of fiduciary duty, but basically WVU is arguing it’s not getting what it was promised and is thus the contract is void.
Final Conclusion: WVU is suing to try and settle, rather than waiting for the Big East to sue them when they started playing football games next year in the Big XII.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 1, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions
In addition
I will ask my dad this afternoon, a practicing attorney for 30 years in Charleston, his opinion of the law suit. That’s what y’all will want to hear.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 1, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
McCutchen
exactly. WVU isn’t TRYING to win this suit. They want the Big East to settle and let them out. WVU isn’t trying to get anything from this except OUT.
Also, where are you from, if you don’t mind my asking. I’m related to A LOT of McCutchens.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Nov 1, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Uh
McCutchen refers to Andrew McCucthen. My last name is Rodgers, I’m from Charleston, and I go to WVU college of law.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 1, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ahhh haha
Gotcha. My grandmother’s maiden name was McCutchen, so I assumed. My bad. :)
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Nov 1, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Np dude
lol.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 1, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Your conclusion
is spot on. Try for the early settlement, rather than wait for a suit from the BE in July.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Its a good thing I'm not a grammer nazi.
Cuz a lot of you legal whizzes can’t spell.
by DanaHolgorsen'sPreCirrhoticLiver on Nov 1, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions
I'm usually a grammar nazi as well.
But people get a pass when trying to converse on a sports blog.
www.smokingmusket.com
@CountryRoadsWV
by Country Roads on Nov 1, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
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