A Philosophical Question About Recruiting
Our summer hiatus is coming to an end, and with our batteries recharged, look for a lot more TSM content coming your way in the coming weeks. But first, we're going to ease into everything with a quick poll question. And it's no small question, considering it questions the entire fabric of your recruiting values.
So...
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I would much rather have 3 star guys with complete control
because sometimes they turn into the only college QB to win 4 bowl games as a starter
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today." Lou Holtz
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
sometimes 4 and 5 star recruits fall on their face
Notre Dame should have won the last couple NC with their recuriting classes, but they struggled to win 5 games last year
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"He Twittered that pitch" Steve Blass
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jul 19, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
There are a lot of factors that go into that.
You’re obviously cherry-picking examples, too. For every Boise State and Utah, there are a whole lot of Utah States and Louisiana-Lafayettes. Having quality players is obviously the path to success, but there’s certainly no certainty that quality players only come from the 4 and 5 star pool.
Honestly, I don’t know which is better. From the looks of things, sentiment seems to be split rather evenly.
by Dr. Charley West on Jul 19, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Utah State's and LA-Lafeyette's
don’t get to cherry pick three star recruits. They get to take 3 star recruits as they come, like the polls premise for four and five star recruits.
I personally thing the stars are meaningless. A chip on a recruits shoulder is worth more.
Look for the positions you need (or positions that can be moved to what you need), find the best talent available to you. Cherry pick those players based on talent, work ethic and character.
That is my thoughts on the issue. It works at Utah and Boise State.
BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter
Valid points...
and Utah and Boise have respectively been very successful for a while now, but in time—for Utah right away for joining Pac 10—4 and 5 star recruits will be more attracted to both schools; if Utah and Boise can respectively get them, I am sure Utah and Boise will respectively welcome them with open arms. The stars are about: bigger, stronger, faster, better technique, ect. So, they are based on real things, but you are right, the chip on the shoulder can be a great equalizer—LSU has a starter on the O-line this year that was rated a two star player (grade of 40) by ESPN (Hurst) coming out of high school. But, I am also sure WVU is glad to have Devine—grade 87 and #6 overall in The ESPN 150 of 07; he is the real deal and I am more than a little worried when we face him.
You also have those that believe...
The star ratings for kids committing to schools like ND and Ohio State are puff’d up because those people buy magazines. They want to read about how awesome the team will be next season.
The fact is the best teams have the best players. Those players are more likely than not 4 and 5 star guys.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Jul 19, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Y'all are bat shit crazy
Since 1990 when Colorado and Washington won a share of the national title NO/ZERO/NADA team has won the title that is not getting almost exclusively 4 and 5 star recruits. If you want national championships you need the best players.
The only teams that say they want 2 and 3 star recruits are the teams that can’t get 4 and 5 star recruits. You don’t see Texas, LSU, Bama, Florida or anyone competing for a national title saying, "Dang guys, we are getting too many really talented players, lets go out and get a couple less talented players that we can feel all warm and cuddly about.."
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Jul 19, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
LOL on the "bat-shit crazy."
Appropriating…
Agreed, the best talent wins 90 percent of the games, so if the goal is championships, you have to aim for the higher-rated guys. However, I don’t think it is necessarily an either/or question. A kid can have 5-star talent andcharacter. I think netting those guys comes down to how you pitch the program and staff to the kid. I think we would all agree that a kid with a rap sheet as a teen might be one to avoid, regardless of talent…but then, sometimes it might be a question of circumstance and the kid might bloom when given a chance. I don’t know. I think it is always going to be a crap shoot…
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
by JP Fanshawe on Jul 19, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think this is that easy of an answer
because of the obvious reason…..character of athlete. However, if character is a controlled measure then clearly I agree w/ 5th Year Senior…..you obviously take the 4-5 star kids. College football is mostly about talent and the reason for those stars is tangible measures such as height, speed, quickness, etc.
The schools that win national championships are USC, Ohio State, Florida, Alabama, Texas, and Oklahoma the majority of the time and they have pretty much nothing but 4 star guys (at least in the case of Ohio State).
It's still early in the voting (43 total)
And I can understand why it’s breaking 2 out of 3 for the Three and Under Stars. After all, this is West Virginia and that’s what we do, that’s what we’ve always done; find kids with stars in their eyes and a chip on their shoulder and tell them all we expect them to be over-achievers. Then, we try to coach them up to be the winners they beileve they can be.
However, I had to go with 5YS on this. Teams that win championships are made of championship caliber (Four and Five Star) players. I am tired of our moniker as the “winningest team to have never won a championship.” I want one. That means we have to go after the top-level talent. It doesn’t mean we don’t still have to coach them up once they get to Morgantown.
"I like the taste of danger most of all." - Jonatha Brooke
I completely agree w/ you
WVU is big enough now where we can actually strive for a national championship. We’ve always done it w/ 3 star guys (as majority) and it’s certainly been respectable but not enough to get us the title.
The Final Four appearance only makes WVU fans hungrier to get the first title in basketball and/or football, as it was simply crushing after that Duke game (especially w/ Butler going down)…..Therefore, I am really surprised that many on here would vote for the 2-3 star players.
My recruiting philosophy would be to decline to give scholarships to talented players in order to keep the walk ons happy, self impose scholarship sanctions and only sign 19 players a year, acquire double secret probation silent verbal comittments, and gorge myself on unrated tight ends and legacies.
Gee willikers, I like this one the best.
How would you manage your running backs in bowl games?
by jbseay on Jul 19, 2010 8:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You can cherry pick exactly which 3 star guys you want.
by Dr. Charley West on Jul 19, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
4 stars and up.
There are only so many times you make a fat diamond out of dusty coal.
by jbseay on Jul 19, 2010 8:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Balance
A lot more than “stars” should go into the recruiting equation. Character, academics, and work ethic are also very important. In general, we should go for the more talented recruits, but WVU is better off with a 3-star recruit with great character, academics and work ethic than a 5-star thug, even if the ratings are accurate.
bc_bc
You're crazy
WVU is better off with players that win us a national championship. I don’t want guys getting arrested all the time but a “thug” player with swagger I’ll take’em
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Jul 19, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends
…on your definition of “thug” I guess. But, I’d rather have a team full of Pat White’s and Reed Williams’ than Jason Gwaltney’s. Also, by my definition of “thug” they would never play together well enough as a team to ever win a championship. But, even if they did, I’d rather have a BCS bowl win with a class team with a high graduation rate than a NC with more players on police blotters than honor rolls.
bc_bc
That is crazy talk right there.....
because not EVERY one of the players would be on the “police blotter”. Gimme a handful on the blotter and a National Championship ANY DAY vs. a high graduation rate and another Sugar Bowl win, which is supposed to mean something……
That thinking (and it’s not necessarily bad thinking) is the difference between college sports fan and professional sports fan…..pro sports fan wants to win at all costs because there’s no fundamental institution tied from player to fan, however, college sports fan tends to equate the quality of player to the institution that he/she attended. Here is the reality that needs to be identified. No matter the major university, identifying major college athletes to the “regular Joe Schmo” on the same campus is flat out flawed. That is comparing apples and oranges.
Case in point
The University of Virginia football team and the rest of the student body. I’ll try to look up specifics on grad. rates, etc.
I agree that you need the 4 and 5 star talent to win championships.
But I voted for the 3 star scenario because I don’t think you’re going to win with just some random assortment of 4 and 5 star talent that you don’t have any control over. (I still don’t understand the scenario completely, maybe an example would help?)
To win big, you have to have talent and some semblance of chemistry or teamwork. Look at our 1998 team. All the talent in the world, but completely underachieved.
And if you’re picking the 3* guys you want, you’re going to get some absolute studs in there that you’re pretty sure are going to pan out.
I mean, if we’re buidling a team from examples at WVU, you have White, Slaton, Quincy, Reynaud, Schmitt, Henry, Pac Man, Stanchek, Mozes, Justice, Capers, Berry, Dingle, Williams, Thomas, Ivy, Wicks, Sands, Lorello, and Hogan, plus Bitancurt and Phil Brady.
On the other side, you have Geno, Snook, Devine, Gwaltney, Barrett, McCartney, Austin, Spain, Jenkins, Gradkowski Davenport, Finau, Irvin, Junius Lewis, Lankster, Brinson, Brandon Douglas, Vince Beamer, McAfee, and Kozlowski.
Obviously you could do some substituting here and there, but if those two teams are lining up, I’ll take the 3*s. Granted, the 5* team is loaded at some spots (RB, maybe QB), but there are plenty of holes, including OL and almost the entire D. To me, that’s what you would get just taking the 4 and 5 stars. Maybe it wouldn’t be that bad because you would have more stud players to choose from and maybe this is a bad example because WVU has had more 3 stars from which to choose, but yeah….that’s the basis for my opinion. Can you tell I’m not entirely sold? lol
did we get Finau
I heard about how he was the greatest DL prospect in the last 10 years
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"He Twittered that pitch" Steve Blass
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jul 20, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
That's my point.
He signed, and hasn’t even enrolled. Lots of those guys never played a down for WVU.
by Country Roads on Jul 21, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions

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