The Principles Of Offense, As In, Have Some
by JP Fanshawe on Oct 25, 2010 1:01 AM EDT
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Does anyone else feel like the above photo is an accurate visual metaphor for our offense?
I guess the one upside of the weekend has to be that we weren't the worst loss by a ranked team. Iowa State over Texas? Really? Is there a MackBrownMustGo website yet? And Kirk Ferentz is making 3 million a year at Iowa but had one of the most boneheaded clock management miscues I have ever seen in a loss to Wisconsin. So, we aren't alone in the pissed-off fanbase category.
Anyway, I spent the weekend in Marion, Illinois, attending the 50th wedding anniversary of a good friend of mine. Wonderful event, but potentially bad mojo. Maybe it was all my fault. Perhaps we lost because I watched the game in a hotel room with my wife and children, and didn't get to go through my usual rituals (read: get a helluva good buzz on), but I am not all that much into silly superstition at this point. We lost because our offense, once again, showed glimmers of life that receded into a murky puddle of what-is-it-that-we-do?
My definition of the spread offense is this: spread the field with sets that include more WR's and forego a tight end or a fullback, use the wideouts and the running backs in an almost interchangeable way, and have a quarterback that is a run/pass threat.
Do we still run the spread? Well, it sure seems to me like we are trying to, but I think the problem may be that Geno is just not a dual-threat guy, so plays that break down aren't as likely to result in good stuff. And a whole lot of our plays seem to break down. I am not in the mood to cut Jeff Mullen any slack, but is the problem that we should really be running a pro-set offense even as we keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole because we got prominent under The Product while running the spread?
We have the personnel to go a different direction. I am actually happy lately when I see us in an I-formation. And even if what we are doing still qualifies as a "spread" offense - where are the mismatches? If a player like Noel Devine lines up at RB, clearly the defense will want an LB assigned to him. But have we recently lined Noel up at WR, which would require the defense to want a DB to be covering him? We keep running Noel into the middle like he is a Steve Slaton, and he is not. He needs space where his elusiveness will enable him to shake the ONE guy that has a chance to make the play. And are we ever really going to integrate our tight ends? I think they could be the keys to the whole thing, because they represent a mismatch, potentially, against both linebackers and safeties. It comes down to this: the spread is supposed to provide big plays. We are struggling to string together first downs, let alone break off a big play.
Another thing that keeps troubling me: there are antidotes to the blitz, you know. The delay draw. The screen pass. How is it that when Geno's body language is screaming insecurity and frustration that we never call a play that could have helped him out?
I don't know who we are or what we do offensively, and I don't think Jeff Mullen does either. Or, he is just really not good at breaking down the film of our opponents. But I wish someone would ask him: what are the principles of your offense? I'd love to hear his response.
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Agree 100%
I think our whole offensive package needs reworked. We ahve two major problems in my opinion:
1. We run power plays from one formation and spread plays from another which is too easy to scout. One of the reasons RichRod had so much success from 05-07 was that Schmitt was alwas on the field with the fast guys, so the D had to account for both
2. We rely way too much on the spread-guy in space-home run. Becasue of this our offense puts out 1-2 good drives and 8-9 3 and outs. We need to find a middle ground and get 3-5 yards when the home run isn’t there.
Watching
Jeff Mullen in his post game interview and him answering I’ll have to watch the tape when asked what went wrong. This tells me that he can’t make in-game adjustments. I would think a good OC would be able to see it as its happening rather than having to go back to watch film. Maybe I’m wrong.
by ShadyMountaineer on Oct 25, 2010 8:14 AM EDT reply actions
That reply
“I’ll have to watch the tape” makes me want to hang myself. As a Bills fan, I listened to Dick Jauron (who in coaching style is like the mirror image of Stewart) say that line over and over and over and over……..JUST TELL US WHAT YOU SAW!!!!! I have eyes, you have eyes, we all saw the same things. Just explain to us from your coaching perspective (i.e. not drunk and sitting in a box above the field) what happened on the field! That’s all we want to know. What happened, and why the hell did you let it happen!
Fear the Grier!!!!
There were too many screens and draws Saturday
I recollect at least two possessions where that’s all they seemed to be…maybe I’m wrong
Couldn't Find A Ferrari Up On Blocks...
which is what I wanted to use! Perhaps you are correct…my memory of the game may be faulty. But it doesn’t seem like we utilized those plays to mitigate the effectiveness of the Syracuse blitzes.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
i don’t remember seeing any draws. we ran like one or two real screens. and not to defend jeff mullen, but those are plays you run when the other team is blitzing.
there were a couple
and I agree that’s what’s supposed to be effective when being blitzed, but not the entire series of downs
Like a lot of you, I'm lost here
Mullen’s first year we were still a spread team with Pat White as trgiggerman. The coaching staff tried to work in some down-field passing with mixed sucess, most notably in the Meineke Bowl.
The next year we were still mostly a spread team and still trying to work in the vertical passing game, sometimes with disastrous results (Auburn and FSU).
This year, I still don’t know what we are trying to be. The UNLV game gave me a false hope that we were turning the corner on this “drop-back passer” identity that both Stew and Mullen have professed is our goal. This game just leaves me wondering if we have a plan at all.
Lecti Exurendo Sunt!
(Couches Must Burn!)
I don’t think we are a spread team, I don’t think we are an pro-set team. I don’t know what we are. I see that we have a back that refuses to pass block 90% of the time. How often this year have you watched a LD or DE blow by him on the way to tattoo Smith? What have they done to stop that? When we are passing it is painfully obvious because devine is taken out. He isn’t slaton and as such WON"t follow a lead blocker, I really am at a total loss of what to do or say. It is getting very hard to justify eight grand a year to watch this kind of garbage.
From An Article On Tony Franklin's Brief Stay At Auburn
…this is from the website Smart Football. It seems applicable.
Once you start going in multiple directions on offense, you lose focus, and all the paranoia becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. In college there is simply not enough time to try to do everything. It’s the converse of Bobby Bowden’s old quote about defense: If you try to stop everything, you stop nothing. Here we could say if you try to be everybody’s spread, you’re nobody’s spread. And Franklin knows this. From an interview he gave over the summer: “The spread is a formation, not an offense: Some people spread the field to run it, like West Virginia. Others spread the field to pass it, like Texas Tech. It’s what you do after you spread the field that defines your offense. We spread it to figure out what is going to work in any particular game and then we just do that. At Troy we basically ran it half the time and threw it half the time. We just always took what the defense was giving us.”
Franklin is an Airraid disciple from the Hal Mumme/Mike Leach tree, but I was struck by the idea that we might now be running “nobody’s spread.”
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
BRILLIANT!
Lecti Exurendo Sunt!
(Couches Must Burn!)
by MtnEer_in_SC on Oct 25, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Spencer Hall's take:
I is for Ignavia. Laziness, as in WVU, whose offense under Jeff Mullen is a maddening hodge podge of short passes, occasionally brilliant Noel Devine runs, and red zone possessions that could be credited for sudden spikes in the Wild and Wonderful state’s heart disease rates. When things have gone pear-shaped for West Virginia, it’s the offense that has led the way down, which was precisely the case on Saturday as Geno Smith threw three interceptions and was sacked five times in the Mountaineers’ 19-14 loss to Syracuse. It’s a general rule that you should be able to tell thematically what an offense is doing at any given point. Oregon runs out of the spread using the zone read. USC runs a pro-style passing scheme backed with a burly run game. Navy runs the triple-option with a focus on establishing the dive. West Virginia…um…they try stuff, and then they sort of give the ball to Noel Devine and hope stuff happens. (This may be what’s written on Bill Stewart’s playcard, actually: “Noel/give ball/ stuff/ hope happens.”)
It would be hilarious if it wasn’t also 100% true. And since it’s true, it just makes me sad.
by Dr. Charley West on Oct 25, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions
Me, Too...
Spencer is spot-on.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
I’ve been saying this exact thing for over two years now and no one has given me any credit. This team won’t get any better without some type of Offensive personality. Be a pass team, a run team, a spread team, a team that waves it’s junk at people before the snap. Be something but this dark menagerie of chaos and despair. What exactly are we basing our play calling on? moon phases, the magic eight ball, the dead sea scrolls?
a team that waves it’s junk at people before the snap.
That’s one way to make SportsCenter each Saturday. We could go Independent and have a lucrative television contract with PPV porn companies.
by Dr. Charley West on Oct 25, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe We Could Do A Special Brett Favre Tie-In Event
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
honestly its a win/win situation. national exposure because of exposure. At this point it is worth a try.
Maybe Jeff Mullen
should watch this:
http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2010/10/oregon-offense-resource.html.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
Further...
Chris Brown at Smartfootball.com wrote a piece for EDSBS that answered the question: what makes an offense terrible? In short, bad players, a grab-bag offensive approach, an ineffective line coach, wasted time in practice, and poor planning. Well, I am reasonably sure we don’t have bad players…
Read it here: http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2009/09/09/smart-football-on-what-makes-an-offense-terrible/
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
I don't care if we have an identity as long as we get results.
And I’m not sure I’m smart enough to know if they go hand in hand. Maybe they do. Or maybe us non-football-coach types just want an identity so we understand better what’s going on. I’m trying to think of a good offense that doesn’t have a readily distinguishable identity. Looking at ESPN, the top 10 teams in total offense are: Baylor (who saw that coming??), Oregon, Hawaii, Auburn, TCU, Michigan, Oklahoma State, Ohio State, Michigan State, and Nevada. What’s TCU’s identity? Ohio State’s? Michigan State’s? Maybe I just haven’t watched them play enough, but I’m not sure any of those teams have one thing to hang their hat on. Especially Michigan State.
I think you have to have an identity to get results.
It might not be 100% absolute, but successful teams can fall back on at least one thing.
by Dr. Charley West on Oct 25, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this
We used to have an indentity. It was “I’m going to run the ball down your throat and you won’t be able to stop me” (Well except for those two games every year we just couldn’t figure out how to do that.)
Last year Spencer at EDSBS was sure our offensive identity was “Let Jarrett Brown and Noel Devine make up stuff on the fly”. This year it’s “give the ball to Noel and hope for good stuff to happen.” I’ve watched evry minute of every game, and I still can’t figure out what it is we’re trying to do on offense other than that.
Lecti Exurendo Sunt!
(Couches Must Burn!)
by MtnEer_in_SC on Oct 25, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough, just trying to generate discussion.
If by “identity” you mean “something we do well regardless of opponent” then, yeah, I agree that it’s important.
by Country Roads on Oct 25, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
a couple of answers...
I watch ALOT of games of just about everyone. If I can get an online feed of games I’ll watch them while watching other games on TV. So here’s how I see some these teams you asked about —
Ohio State – maybe not a nice hip phrase like zone-read, but they play defense, conservative yet deep passes against single coverage (usually deep corner or post routes drawing a safety away or splitting them), and run with big running backs.
Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa all play much the same. They all have 320+ pound o-linemen and typically 225+ lb running backs. John Clay at Wis. goes 255. The passing concepts are simple out and slant concepts mostly. Its not complicated, the passing games are really point-generators, these teams struggle to come back late in games if down by 11 with 6 minutes left though.
TCU is a lot like a more modern one-back pro-set (think not like the Colts, but more like Green Bay or the Patriots where its rarely an I-formation) and they build on play-action. There’s nothing overly complex in their passing game, Dalton just executes it all much much better than any of the Big 10 counterparts. Its typical for Dalton’s nights to look a lot like 22/30 for 270 yard range. Like Ohio State there’s not a sexy name to attach to what they do, its just more or less their execution of their game plan that makes them so efficient. Oh, that defense is pretty damn good too.
derp!
Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa all play much the same. They all have 320+ pound o-linemen and typically 225+ lb running backs. John Clay at Wis. goes 255. The passing concepts are simple out and slant concepts mostly. Its not complicated, the passing games aren’t really point-generators, these teams struggle to come back late in games if down by 11 with 6 minutes left though.
Comparisons...
Football (college especially) I don’t think is about as much out-smarting the guys across the field from you. It’s more about having a clear and concise set of goals, a plan, a backup-plan, and players who fully understand everything you need and expect from them.
Where do we go wrong on these points?
The Plan – Why does our passing game fail? Well, for all the talk, its due to a lack of variety. There is no backup plan when things go badly. and we rely on 17 swing passes and hope a skill guy makes someone miss, especially if that’s what you rely on. Its too easy to defend because the defense expects those short passes all the time, and don’t over-pursue. So if its a lack of variety, why? Well…
The Goals – Its no hidden fact that our goals are all over the place. I’ve heard and read Stew say he wants to do all of the following: run the ball from the I-formation sometimes, throw a bunch of slip screens, throw it our on the edge but not downfield “because bad things can happen”, run some pitches, run some belly-option, run it from the single-back sets… its a ton of unfocused and unprepared mess.
Players – I don’t think we blame the players around here, aside from poor decisions, they’re running alot of what they’re told to. But when one gets hurt, we seem to be dead in our tracks. Remember the Gator Bowl? Or the LSU game without Devine?
So lets compare this to Mike Leach… And I don’t use Leach so much as an example because he’s the hot name on the posts on the site today. He happens to be the coach I’ve most closely studied and read about and learned from.
His Monday – Friday work is what makes the offense on Saturdays look so good. His goals are established. “We are going to run a small and finite number of plays but run them perfectly, and when we do you can’t stop them”. Chris at SmartFootball.com wrote a GREAT piece about how in their win over Texas in 2008 they ran the same play like 5 or 6 times in a row!
His Players – M-F his practices are something to behold. Every play as his guys practice, most of the time from the 4 WR set, he has every QB on the roster throw to a given WR each play. QB 1 throws to WR 1, ect… then they rotate, so QB 2 is throwing to QB 1 running the same route in the same play. and QB 3 throwing to WR 2 , and QB4 throwing to WR 3, and QB 1 to WR 4… and they all rotate as they go through practice so each guy gets reps both throwing to all the WR’s, and all the WR’s get in work running all the routes, and every combination in between.
The Plan – 3WR/1TE or 4WR sets, with a lot of zone routes. The WRs adjust their routes based on the coverage being played so “7 yard slant” isn’t always 7 yards. Leach’s own words on why his gameplan focuses on passing so much (paraphrase) – "You need 10 yards for a first down. Are you more likely to be able to run 3 times at 4 yards a play or is it more likely that you can throw for 7 yards a play and have a better chance at success. Essentially, its about maximizing yards per play. Time of Possession is irrelevant, you don’t get points for that. Balance is unimportant, you don’t points for that. You get points for moving the ball into the end zone only. "
This combination of Goals/Plan/Players is why his offense ran like a death machine, and our runs like an old-timey guy on one those bikes with the really big front tire.
Great Comment
And I have become a fan of Leach as well, moreso from listening so much to his radio show this year….and I wonder if our practices are as efficient. I think they might be, because that might be one thing that was held over The Product’s era. I know his practices were highly efficient.
I think one thing you say points out a problem with Leach’s system: the fact that time of possession is irrelevant. That has to have something to do with his team’s defensive weaknesses over the years. When you score like lightning, it puts a lot of pressure on the other team, but also a great deal of pressure on your own defense. And I am also a big fan of Chris over at Smart Football, so I am sure you have also read how great defenses, especially ones with great defensive lines, can totally shut down AirRaid-type offenses….
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
CR...
Regarding identity, I think it is like the Chris Brown says in the article I linked above…he writes:
There’s a completely true old coaching adage that it is less important what system you run than it is the fact that you have a system, preferably one that you know well and can coach.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
I Just Don't Think We Have A System....
The programs you mention, TCU included, clearly do.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
Zone Read With Geno
I was at the SU game and every time Geno put the ball in Noel’s belly, Noel took it. That play was effective when Pat White ran it but no one from SU was worried about Geno. We hired a QB coach from Wake Friggin Forest to be our OC w/out any experience being an OC. I guess a team might get lucky and land a QB coach from a non-football school who can be an effective OC in three years but that hasn’t been our experience. The Porsche on blocks is a perfect analogy for an offense that has the speed and talent of Oregon but is averaging 40 points less per game against inferior competition. That’s how far we have fallen in the Stew Era. We used to be Oregon folks~
Exactly....
We seem to be employing an option offense where the other team is pretty certain only one option is likely.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
Awesome point
I made the same one Saturday after the debacle. Mullen needs to eliminate the zone read from the playbook if Geno is never going keep it himself.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Oct 26, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
New to the site
Usually follow the message board on Rival,but never post. Im a diehard mountaineer fan and certainly not an authority on the coaching aspect of the game. Like many fans, I am really frustrated with the offense. I live in Winston Salem,NC and continually go back to Stewart hiring Mullen. We were 1 game away from playing for a national championship and Rodriquez had suceeded in elevating this program. With the media attention we had, I could never figure out why Stewart so quickly hired a quarterbacks coach to be the offensive coordinator. Even if you were going to change the offense,it seems that there would have been lots of interest among coaches with experience and a proven track record at that position. Of course Stew is a good friends with Jim Grobe. But with the pressure and expectaions of taking over for Rodriguez , I just cant understand why you would make such an important decision that quickly. Could it be that he was following following the lead of the AD that hired him right after the Fiesta Bowl win?
Struck in the same way...
I didn’t understand the refusal to give Charlie Taaffe and Gene Hanshaw (of the Saints) serious consideration, or at least interviews! You can’t just hire someone out of the blue without giving someone other people at least some consideration and points to ponder…
Taafe was all but hired
but his contract in the CFL kept him from coming…that’s when they turned to Mullen
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