West Virginia vs. Liberty: Thoughts?
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Thoughts
Grades: Offense-C
Defense-D
Special Teams-F (excluding FG kicker)
Coaching-F
Many of you will point to the obvious fact that my distaste for Stewart is skewing my grade given to the coaches…..it’s not.
My biggest concern is that special teams play is very much an “effort” facet of football. It requires effort to get down the field quickly, get off blocks, etc. WVU just looks flat out uninterested in this clearly critical aspect of the game. Moreover, this lack of effort on special teams begs the question….Will it permeate to the other critical aspects of the game? Has it permeated to the defense, etc.? Obviously too early to tell after only one game but it’s certainly concerning.
As for my prediction early in the week: WVU 30, Liberty 10 (didn’t miss too badly)
1-2 TOs (I missed), 10 penalties (missed but not by much), people would leave the stadium a bit disappointed (I was correct)
Our kick coverage was terrible.
That is not the only special teams aspect. An F just shows that you cannot be objective with anything Stewart does.
Perfect on field goals. Good on punts. Our kick return game was pretty good.
by 5th Year Senior on Sep 6, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Looked liked the same team as last year. D couldn’t get off the field, kickoff coverage was bad, and offense is turning us into field goal U.
Other thoughts: why isn’t a guy like will johnson on kickoff coverage? he’s a big athletic backup.
i think you have to go for it on fourth and inches from your opponents 39, ESPECIALLY against an inferior foe like Liberty. If you can’t get 6 inches, maybe you shouldn’t be D-1.
just a personal preference, but i wish we would runa triple option at least once.
jarret brown and noel devine are great runners. i wish they were used in that capacity more often.
Random Thoughts...
1. JB looked OK, not great by any means.
2. Offensive Line was not great. JB was forced to scramble far too many times.
3. Punt and KO coverage was horrific. They need to hire a REAL special teams coach. The players on the unit seemed very un-athletic.
4. Wes Lyons seems to be very injury-prone. Too bad after hearing about him so much lately.
5. Why didn’t Heastie get in the ballgame? I don’t think that he did.
6. Hopefully we’ll put the ball in Noel, Jock, and Tavon’s hands a bit more vs. ECU.
7. The CB’s need to step up in a major way.
8. Safety Robert Sands is going to be a beast IMO. Maybe the first DB drafted from WVU in a long, long time.
9. We still seem to lack a killer instinct in terms of putting teams away. The same sort of issues were around last year.
10. Stew really needs to develop some sort of sideline presence. Really seemed to lack that again this game.
Jones/Lankster
Thanks for correcting me. Sadly, those two are very forgettable.
Jones was a bust and Lankster won’t be playing much.
Lord, I Hate Some Bloggers....
….who shall remain unnamed, but I am shocked, SHOCKED….to read C, D, F….a call-out on fourth down, a woulda-coulda-shoulda play-call (you woulda run the triple option?) and the QB with a 73 percent efficiency was “not great by any means” etc….
We don’t have a frame of reference yet, but it seems Falwell U. has some talent…well, at least 2 really talented guys (think Spurrier is missing Beecher right about now?).
I would skew higher on the offensive side…like B+. I am pretty sure we were vanilla in this game. Brown 19-of-26, Devine for 112…unimpressive I guess… Defensively….in Casteel I trust. B- Might not have seemed like it but Liberty was 3-for-13 on 3rd down, and ran for just 3.4 per carry. Remember Villanova moved the ball also, and we wound up Ok.
Special teams, I have to agree. WTF? I don’t see it as a lack of effort, though. Rather, a lack of execution. None of those kids looked pleased with the results. Were they apathetic, then I would be concerned. Seriously, though….solve this problem.
A win is a win…and I am heartened by (B-team broadcaster) John Saunders (sp?) factoid that 22 players on the Liberty roster had transfered from D-1 schools (to get closer to Gawd, I suppose)…and the fact that ECU, Ohio St., Iowa, and others all struggled with supposedly inferior competion. But then, of course, I am heartened. I am a positive kind of guy….
"Vanilla in this game"
Why would we withhold key play calling, implementation of offense? Seems to me this would be the perfect time to work on those issues given general lack of experience, especially w/ the QB position. I must admit that I’ve never subscribed to the line of thinking where one team withholds plays, etc. to “surprise” upcoming opponents. IMO, I don’t think WVU did that today. I think that’s what we’re going to go with next week against ECU, concerning offensive gameplan.
I guess if you can convince yourself a 13 point victory against a D-1-AA team is good, bully for you.
Hate to agree with Columbus, but...
That was painful to watch. Looked like last year minus #5. How can our kick coverage be that pathetic against Liberty after emphasizing it since January? Only one answer… Coaching.
As for JPs “rationalization” about Liberty’s talent, it’s still an unranked FCS school. We should have had the 2s in for the entire second half and still won by 30+.
Mullen’s play calling was sad (I don’t buy that we were being intentionally “vanilla” in a game that we were one possession from losing for three quarters).
Finally… How many times did they complete passes to the outside to #10 for 10+ yards? Sad…
in all fairness
High C+, low B-…..it wasn’t pretty by any means, but positives happened.
The Bad: Offensive line allowed too much penetration, kickoff coverage sucked (punt coverage did not : we punted 2x, one touchback, one downed on the half yard mark.), Defensive brain farts allowed a couple of stupid long gains, Noel indecisive at times.
The Good: JB looked poised under pressure, Jock Sanders seems to have found some moisturizer to soften the hands, short yardage seems to have improved as well, Julian Miller wouldn’t stop, neither did JT Thomas.
Lyons could have played but the coaches held him out with a minor hammy tweak (I personally would rather have him the rest of the season instead of a making it worse today).
In kickoff coverage, I saw over-pursuit, not lack of effort. Problems do exist, no doubt.
I do believe in vanilla against a foe like this, always have, always will.
I also believe we didn’t go for it on 4th down because the coaches needed to see how the kickers did under pressure in a game situation.
Overall, I honestly felt better coming out of this game than after the Villanova game last year. But not by a bunch.
and
this is not an excuse, but the FCS ain’t what it used to be….just look across the national scoreboard….more close games than most would imagine or would have predicted.
Case In Point...
…how would you like to be trawling UVA’s website right now? (My heart bleeds…..go sing Auld Lang Syne and hold hands, you pricks….!) And speaking of Villanova, y’all did see that they beat Temple, right? (Poor Temple….maybe Cosby will buy them something…..)
97 is right….we are seeing this a whole lot more. The 85/25 rule has really changed the game….
…and of course you go vanilla on offense in a game like this! You never tip your hand until you have to! Because your foes are out there, and they are watching film.
Would you be happier if we had lost? I will never be really pissed after a W
by 5th Year Senior on Sep 6, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I've got to vent.
Special Teams: God awful. I know it’s been mentioned already but it was terrible. There were 7 returns for 161 yards, 23 yards average. Mike Brown had 3 returns for 107 yards with the longest going for 45 yards. Mike Brown smoked our ass, how had is it to double up on this guy. Not only did he have those returns, he also caught 11 passes for 157 yards. If I was HCBS, I would tell the kicker to kick it out of bounds every time, that way at least they are at the 40 instead of at midfield. Pitiful.
Receiving: I was surprised how that turned out. I bought into the pre-season hype for Wes Lyons and Alric Arnett but never again. Those guys suck balls. They are incredibly inconsistent and Lyons in a pussy. He must be made out of popsicle sticks with cinder blocks for hands. Sanders, Urban, and Starks looked good, they’re going to shine this year. While the numbers for Urban and Starks weren’t that much better than Arnet and Lyons, they’re a lot more consistent.
Passing: Brown did a great job. Most of the passes were on point, and thrown with confidence. When he had to run he did a good job of protecting the ball. Throwing 19/26 for 243 isn’t shabby, although a passing touchdown would have been nice.
Defense: Sub par. The Mike Brown thing again. How difficult is it to double up coverage on the only guy making plays? You could argue that falls under coaching. I saw a lot of chances for interceptions. J.T. Thomas looked good out there, him and Williams were hitting with authority. Also, someone mentioned earlier about special teams affecting other parts of the game. It has to affect the defense because anytime they come on the field, they opposing team is already at midfield. Special teams is ruining the defense’s stats.
Side Notes/Questions: The scoreboard is only a year old, why was that black strip on there? And what the hell happened to the clock on the scoreboard? Sitting in Section 210 I couldn’t see how much time was on the clock. The small scoreboard on the left side of the luxury boxes is always off when it comes to showing scores from other games. Since the AT&T network takes a crap anytime more than 15 people are on at one time, there are a lot of people who have no other way to know the scores of the other games.
Did anyone else hear about/experience the new tailgating rules? I heard no more beer pong in any of the university lots or any other “drinking games,” cornhole is allowed as long as it isn’t played as a drinking game. Also, “excessive” alcohol is prohibited. Not sure who makes the call on what is excessive and what isn’t.
Also, the worst WVU fans are in Section 210/211 (student section beside luxury boxes). They’re all a bunch of retards that don’t know anything about anything. They arrive late and leave early. All they do is bitch and complain, talk shit on WVU, and bullshit about hair jell and rape.
Too Early to Tell
I know the score wasn’t as impressive as we would like, but I think we are in for a good year if we solve the kickoff problems.
I think the offense and defense were intentionally vanilla for a couple reasons. First, they don’t want to show too much until they have to. Second, and probably most importantly, they use a game like this to evaluate players. For example, Casteel would like a shutout for sure, and he knows how to double cover a guy, but against Liberty he probably would rather see which of his DBs has the goods covering one on one and see what type of mistakes they make so he knows what to correct.
On a negative note, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH OUR KICKOFF COVERAGE?!?!?! Every other team in the country, including Liberty, can hold teams inside the damn 30 but us. I’m no expert, but it seems like two things are killing us: guys getting out of their lanes and creating huge alleys and guys not getting of their damn blocks.
This kick-off coverage problem will cost us a Big East championship if we cant fix it or if we GIVE IN and pooch kick to the 35 each time
It's definitely the consensus on this board....
that the kickoff coverage was unacceptable. This is certainly concerning since it was a major offseason question in the press, w/ the team, etc. This is CLEARLY a coaching issue. I would give it another game or two, however, to get it ironed out and if still egregious then the special teams coordinator needs to go. BTW, who is our special teams coordinator?
The coaches are responsible for the product on the field.
And I’ve never been in a band or sang, but I know the Beatles are better than the Backstreet Boys.
I played....
my whole life growing up through high school. Now I’m going to ask you, “How much football have you played or coached?”
I played, so what!
Here is the deal straight up….yesterday was unimpressive at all phases of the game and there was no improvement on special teams ( kick coverage) which is squarely on Stewart since HE is the special teams coach. NOW having said that, they get the only pass of the season because it was the first game and they didnt pull out all the stops. Next week different story..if they dont put out an offensive explosion, cover kicks and allow ECU to score and score often, then despite a win I will come down hard on this team because of all the preseason hype…yesterday they didnt live up to any of it.
The Big East gets no respect and we didnt help matters. AND FINALLY…I HATE watching games on ESPN Gameplan…the coverage is terrible as are the announcers…you just cant feel the electricity in the stadium by an ESPN Gameplan game..it was a real yawner!
KEN
I completely agree w/ this...
and why I said that the special teams coordinator should be gone after another game or two. The preseason hype is wayyyyyyyy beyond the level of play that was displayed yesterday. This program isn’t the WVU of 1996 or WVU of 2000…..It’s at an entirely different level and this team has perhaps more talent (and experience on defensive side) than many since 2000.
I also agree w/ Gameplan “feel”. Sometimes, I get the feeling I’m watching an old Benny Hill show on BBC (or any show for that matter on BBC) due to the production of these broadcasts. Hell, at least try pumping in some noise like the Colts did in trying to gain an advantage against the Steelers in ’05 Super Bowl run.
My thoughts
Offense: B
We showed ECU enough to make them watch a lot of film but left a ton off the table. Did anyone notice all the new formations we lined up in this game? We also went in motion much more than last season.
Even though we did not open up our playbook we should’ve scored more points. Kicking that many field goals against Liberty is pretty sad. Our O-line was pretty solid at times but still missed some assignments.
How can you not understand leaving plays off the table? When you’re playing Texas Hold’em do you flip over your cards before everyone gets their cards? No. In the business/legal world do you call up your opposition and tell them everything you are going to do? No Don’t be an idiot.
Defense: C-
I counted 4 times that our DB’s lined up within 5 yards of their WR’s. They had 5 -15 yard out routes open all day.
I was very disappointed but I have faith in our defensive coaches.
Special Teams: B
If I were just grading kick coverage, it would be a 10% because we kicked it out of bounds once. I punched myself multiple times at our kick coverage. I saw multiple players run down field and just stop when getting to a blocker. It was like they were playing red light, green light in elementary school. Run fast and stop.
Everything else was pretty damn good.
Coaching: C-
We had little to no intensity. We were not aggressive on offense. We did not get enough push on D.
Officiating: D
When did flag football rules get incorporated into tackle football? Tackle someone but not too hard. The refs were terrible and prevented the game from having any type of flow. Terrible
A W is a W. Survive and advance.
Survive and Advance against D-1AA?
A win might be a win, but not against a D-1AA team. It may be against the Pirates next week, but not against a D-1AA team. I could care less if it was a good D-1AA team with 20 transfers. All that tells me is that they couldn’t hack it at the D-1 level.
Survive and advance? What are we talking about here? The NCAA Tournament? No, this was f-ing Liberty.
Come on, bro.
I'm beginning to think.....
that many posters on here don’t really believe what they are saying, but instead, simply can’t stand the abrasive nature of posting by myself, roolgol and other dissenters. Therefore, they’ll debate any points we bring up.
Let’s think of it this way…..this team plays West Virginia Wesleyan in a few weeks…Wow
No clue what your point is.
I assume by not responding to my counter point you know you are wrong.
by 5th Year Senior on Sep 6, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally believe what I am saying...
I graduated from WV Wesleyan in 2006. The football team was horrible then. It is even worse now. Liberty by 60 or 70 in that game.
Beyond that, I have no clue what you mean by not believing what I typed above. I wouldn’t have typed it if I didn’t believe it.
5th Year
The quote, “A W is a W. Survive and advance,” against Liberty was so ridiculous that even the dim-witted Mitch Vingle understands that it doesn’t need to be countered.
http://www.wvgazette.com/Sports/todayssportscolumn/200909050251
Believe me, I wouldn’t type something that I knew was wrong.
Not what I was talking about.
I was talking about the point Cbus made about not understanding being vanilla. He wants us to show our hand at all times. Why not just put our play call on the jumbotron.
by 5th Year Senior on Sep 6, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
roolgol-
wasn’t speaking about you…I was referring to those that take jabs at posters such as you or me and sometimes feels like a “jab just to jab”
"The abrasive nature of posting by myself....and other dissenters..."
That comment says it all. Dissenting from what? I wonder what exactly it is that would appease you. It’s like you know you are a negative fan. I have a theory about it..the team can only make you happy. If we win (with authority) you are happy. If we lose, you get to say ‘I told you so.’ Either way…you aren’t really vested.
Let’s just wait and see what the season brings. I really think our fans need to let go of the egotistical notion that this (Liberty) team is D1-AA, blah blah blah….and that reflects badly on us. These are kids are we are talking about, and again let me ask how consistent any of us was at 21, and I am pretty damn sure that the kids on the LIberty roster were jacked to play us, and our kids were thinking: “hey, this is Liberty.” Granted, a dangerous way to think, because the diffference between D1 and DII has been shrinking for a while.
In deference to the zip code, no we are not supposed to be happy because we are better off than Temple or UVA…we should be happy because we won the game…
JP--You have no clue about what you speak...
Some posters fail to see all the positives with the football win, program, etc. It doesn’t make us bad people. It simply makes us very different from the norm of WVU fan posters on this site and others.
I am happy when WVU wins, but was I happy after yesterday’s lackluster performance. No way. Were you? Probably. Should we be? No. You can all the arguments you want that these are kids and different divisions don’t matter or that they were stoked to play us. I still not going to agree with your terribly reasoned arguments. That’s the beauty of the internet, football, college, thinking, etc.
How in the hell could it reflect badly on us for thinking we were better than Liberty because we were in D-1 and they were in D-1AA? That makes no sense at all. We are better than them simply because of that. Thinking otherwise would be totally pointless and ridiculous at best.
Sure, we won the game. Typically, I am happy after wins, but not after the porous performance yesterday.
Argument convoluted.....at best.
“How in the hell could it reflect badly on us for thinking we were better than Liberty because we were in D-1 and they were in D-1AA? That makes no sense at all. We are better than them simply because of that. Thinking otherwise would be totally pointless and ridiculous at best.”
What?
So all D1 teams are better than what was formerly known as D-1AA? Quite a few scores from yesterday would counter that argument. What I am saying is that, game-to-game, efforts differ. Do you think Ohio St. was taking Navy seriously yesterday? Does any of us believe that if that game were played 10 times, Navy would be close in even one of them?
You can go ahead and think I have no clue about what I speak. But admitting that you don’t see the positives in watching a team you love win when, in reality, you have absolutely nothing to do with the outcome, is sad to me. Why are you watching?
There was one real thing that was lackluster in our performance yesterday – the frequently mentioned kickoff coverage, or lack thereof. The thing that most find lackluster is that we didn’t roll like Florida did against Charleston Southern-Liberty’s Big South cohort.
I find it funny that you label yourself “different from the norm of WVU fan posters on this site.” There are only about three or four of us that even try to be positive! The norm is negative, which, being a native of the region and seeing it everywhere, all the time, irks the shit out of me. Nothing comes from negativity! I believe, really believe, that what you put out in life, comes back to you…and the few times we’ve been close to perfection as a team I wonder if that karma – all those people expecting the worst – hasn’t come home to roost.
So I'm a bad fan if I'm not happy?
I think we can all agree Bob Huggins is a good coach. If we played a Division II school and beat them by 20 points, would Huggins be happy? Undoubtedly not. So if Huggs isn’t happy in an analogous situation, then I don’t have to be either.
A few years ago, WVU failed to blow out an early-season over-matched opponent. After the game, the coach told the media, “I know I always say that ‘a win is a win,’ and ’I’m happy whether we win by 50 or by 1.’ Well, I lied. I’m not happy about this win.”
Coaches are allowed to be unhappy
Coaches and players, unlike fans, are truely invested. Threfore, it is more appropriate for them to say things like Huggins said.
I think it is fine to be bummed or dissapointed by your team. But what most of the negative posters on this site do is take it to the level of super-negative predicitons.
None of us really know what will happen with this team. I know some of us have played, some have coached(I have) some go to games, some even break down game film, but Only the people in the locker room really know what is going on with any team. So we as fans are left with a choice week to week- be hopeful or be negative. Either way, how we act is more a reflecton of us than the team
Cheers Buddy
Well said…
“So we as fans are left with a choice week to week- be hopeful or be negative. Either way, how we act is more a reflecton of us than the team”
by 5th Year Senior on Sep 7, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Again...
I think some of you would rather us fail and get your way, than see us succeed and prosper.
We all see that there are areas that need vast improvement but anyone that would talk about firing a coach after a win needs to stop “drinking his face off.”
by 5th Year Senior on Sep 7, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions
5YS and JP
You don’t have to beat a dead horse. We aren’t going to agree on Bill Stewart, the Liberty win, or the proper way to be a fan. But we also don’t have to resort to personal attacks and criticizing each other. The lack of that personal bickering is what made this site so much better than the message boards. So let’s just express our own opinions, stop attacking people who disagree, and be civil.
Agree on a hatred of message boards
That’s pretty much why I started the damn site in the first place. Message boards suck.
by Dr. Charley West on Sep 7, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions

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