Bill Stewart And Dissecting A Season-Ending Rant of Rants
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 7, 2009 11:58 AM EST
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PrintBill Stewart and I don't always see eye-to-eye. There are probably a ton of things we disagree on, like punt vs. not punt, Rihanna vs. Beyonce, and sweater vest vs. anything other than sweater vest. But at the end of the day, we have to get along, mostly because he's the head football coach of West Virginia and I'm not, regardless of what I try to tell you.
Still, at times, HCBS ruffles my feathers. Sunday's press conference was one of those moments. I could best describe yesterday's rant as Bill Stewart's version of giving the middle finger to all doubting fans out there. There's really no other way to put it. Unfortunately for Bill, there are still a lot of doubting fans out there, and this doesn't exactly go a long way to making him any more likable to the group.
So, to try to best breakdown his thoughts and feelings, we're going to go all FJM-style on this diatribe. If you don't know what FJM means, Google it (or just click here -- I'm not that big of an asshole).
Here we go....
[Warning: this is going to be excessively snarky, but the way I see it, you don't talk down so much to a fan base/media group and not expect some kind of retort. Warning over.]
I’ll tell you what I’ve seen the entire season. I’ve seen four quarters of not great football for West Virginia. Let me slow this down for you real good, everybody.
Thanks, Bill. Always looking out for us simple fans. Of all the things you do for us, and I'll absolutely admit winning nine games is an impressive feat, slowing things down for us is not one that we really need. You can talk as fast as you want, we'll follow.
Listen to me:
Listening.
We’re 9-3. We’re 9-3.
I got it. We're 9-3. I took numbers in school, so I'm familiar with the meaning of both 9 and 3 -- not to mention numerous other numbers, though 4 has always given me trouble.
You understand how many teams in America would like to be 9-3 now? I’m not scolding you. I’m telling you.
It sure sounds like you're scolding us. A lot of teams would like to be 9-3, just like a lot of teams would love to be in USC's shoes at 8-4 and in the AT&T Bowl. I realize we're not USC, but WVU fans have come to expect a lot in the past few years. Whether you think that is appropriate or not, I really don't much care. That's the reality of the situation. 9-3 is good, but 10-2 is better. When you go 10-2, 11-1 will be better. You may as well get used to that.
And yes, you improved from last year, which I applaud you for. Hell, I was happy with the win yesterday, simply because it finished the season on a high note and we made it to the Gator Bowl. To simply call it an improvement over last year and move on would be a disservice. Last year was a big disappointment, so improvement was mandatory, not a luxury.
I’ve been keeping this in too long. Bill Stewart is going to punch back a little bit today.
When Bill Stewart, of all people, is talking in the third person, something has gone seriously, seriously wrong. I almost feel bad that we've pushed him to this point.
We’re 9-3. We’re going to the Gator Bowl. OK?
I got it, 9-3. Still good with the numbers.
We had a bad fourth quarter at Auburn. OK. I didn’t throw that kid under the bus. We didn’t do very well. We had a bad fourth quarter at Auburn.
It was more than just a bad fourth quarter. We had an absolutely fantastic start. 14-0 before Auburn had even blinked. It was a dream start, no doubt. But after that, there were few bright spots. We turned the ball over six times and not all of those were in the fourth quarter. I give HCBS shit for a lot of different things, but his selective memory is certainly towards the top of my list.
With that said, I think it's admirable that HCBS doesn't throw kids under the bus. Unfortunately, when bad traits persist game to game, you start to question his philosophy of always loving his lads.
We had three bad quarters at South Florida. That’s what Mike’s alluding to. Mike, I’m scolding you either. You’re my buddy. But write that. Write the truth. We had four bad quarters of football.
I'm not Mike (he's referring to Mike Casazza, by the way), but I will happily write the truth. Unfortunately, Bill, your version of the truth lacks the key ingredient to truth: truth.
We've had way, way, way more bad quarters of football than just four. You've hit the first couple, but what about, and I'll try to count each and every one of them:
- East Carolina: 1st quarter -- Quickly behind 10-0 in front of the home crowd, we had to connect on a long TD pass with eight seconds left in the quarter to salvage a 10-7 deficit. If anyone saw that quarter, they would agree it was "bad." I'm not even mentioning the fact that we started our first drive at our own two after 47 (slight exaggeration) consecutive penalties. OK, fine, I mentioned it.
- Auburn, 2nd quarter -- You already hit on the fourth quarter (which is what I assume you were talking about), but how about the second? Outscored 10-0, we went three and out, Jarrett Brown was intercepted deep in Auburn territory, and the game went from a near blowout to a one point halftime lead. Was that a good quarter? No.
- Marshall, 1st quarter -- I know Jarrett Brown got hurt, but when you lose any quarter on the scoreboard to Marshall, you can't convince me to call it even average. It was bad.
- UConn, 2nd quarter -- What would have been a decent quarter was completely undone by allowing the Huskies to return a kickoff to our own 42 with only 48 seconds left in the half. Even worse was allowing them to score in only three plays, letting them take a 17-14 halftime lead.
- Louisville, 1st, 2nd, and 4th quarters -- I'm not going to break these down individually, but this was as atrocious as atrocious gets against a far worse than atrocious Louisville team. I don't care what the end result was, there is no excuse for quarters such as these. Only in the third period did we outscore one of the worst teams in college football by more than one point. And in the first and fourth, they held us scoreless. Puke.
- Rutgers, 3rd quarter -- During the game, the announcers mentioned that West Virginia was squib kicking every time to prevent long returns from Rutgers, because we couldn't "kick it long or kick it high." This strategy was working great. Of course, in your infinite wisdom, you decided to attempt a deep kick, which immediately resulted in a Rutgers TD. I give that decision to kick it deep an F, only because I don't think X is an actual grade. Some decisions are so bad that you lose the quarter because of them, not to mention we were outscored by Rutgers. All the same, bad quarter.
OK, so I count eight different bad quarters, on top of the four that you already mentioned. Just because we end up winning the game, that doesn't excuse you or the team from absolutely laying an egg in any 15 minute time span. It makes the result better, but you still played a bad quarter (at least) 12 times this season.
We took a Cincinnati team to an onside kick. Fifth in the country. Three points. At their place. We lost to them by three points at our place last year and they were conference champs.
Cincinnati is a good team, but some of us would prefer that WVU be conference champs instead of a bum-fuck team like Cincinnati. Remember, they hadn't won shit before you became coach. Going into last season, we were 14-1-1 all-time against them. Now, all of a sudden, they're conference champs and we should be proud of staying in a game with them. Excuse me for expecting more. A lot more.
There were some ups and downs, you betcha, but a whole lot more ups than downs. Don’t tag my name to anything other than this is a 9-3 football team. And that’s from my heart and as businesslike as I can be and it’s fair. I’m not going to let people keep telling me my players and my boys are not good. They’re 9-3.
Like I said before, 9-3 is good, but 10-2 is better. If you actually go 10-2 next year, I will be thrilled, but then I will expect 11-1. That's just natural. Just don't bitch at me for having high expectations.
I told you about the four quarters. I told you about Cincinnati.
And I told you about eight more.
Now, did we win pretty all the time? No, but, by God, that was pretty to me today. Next.
Let's just agree to disagree, shall we?
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FJM indeed...
Charley, I laud you for your long term memory. A wonderful post with a tempered look at the season to date.
Well done
That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to say all season about HCBS. Nicely done. What’s wrong with having high expectations?
Exactly
I agree completely. I was shocked at Stew’s selective memory while listening to the press conference.
I also can not excuse leaving three points on the field against Cincy with 5 1/2 minutes left. As Stew pointed out, we lost by three in that game. Who knows how that game would have ended, but you have to take advantage of opportunities when you can.
Also known as "Fisking"
“ I am not going to let people keep telling me my players and my boys are not good”
Most of the comments I’ve read said the players are good, but the coaching was bad. Inability to make “in-game” adjustments and teach sound fundamentals like ball security, to name a couple.
Stew is not the only one with selective memory.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 7, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
I said most.
I stand by my original statement. Yeah, there was a lot of criticism of Brown, but a lot of that criticism often was in regards to his ball security issues which goes back to coaching.
Again, you have selective memory.
You also must not attend many games because I hear a lot of people say a lot of ugly stuff about our players.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 7, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
But you should TASTE Brian Kelly's jowl-scraps, Charley. Delicious!
/channeling 5th Year Senior
by bicklefischerkane on Dec 7, 2009 1:11 PM EST reply actions
Snarky, Indeed...
I think it is amusing that people can talk shit about Stew and the program all season, and if he pushes back and takes a condescending tone toward the naysayers, these same people get insulted…
…weren’t several of you negative nancies saying we were going to lose to Pitt and Rutgers? Well, we didn’t. We just didn’t win pretty. Uh, sorry…but ugly wins count just as much.
God, this site pisses me off sometimes…
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
Me too
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 7, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Extremely happy after the last two wins.
How could I not be? We beat a top 10 Pitt team and then Rutgers on the road. It wasn’t pretty, but we won, and those are two games where winning is simply enough. Bravo to Bill Stewart.
What soured that feeling was this damn press conference. Stewart continually justifies his coaching track record with off the cuff statements that don’t just add up. That’s my problem. He tries to make it look like he’s giving it to us straight, but he’s really not. Hence, this post.
Like I said, love the two wins, hate his reaction.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 7, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, in part.
I agree that we had more than 4 bad quarters. That was a silly statement.
I agree that we should improve every year.
After that, my only problem with Stew’s comments is that he did not go far enough in defending himself and his players. He never said he only wanted to be 9-3. He was stating a fact that many people should be happy about. Especially considering the low expectations many of our fans had for this team.
Your post comes across as how dare HCBS question what I think because I am 100% right and he is an idiot. Almost like he should just sit there and take the beating you give him and his players week-in-week-out without saying anything.
He is showing a fire and fight that so many people say he doesn’t have. He is sticking up for himself and his players with a fighter’s mentality. You say we could be 10-2 and if we are 10-2, 11-1 is better, no shit. My kid Tyler knows that and he is only 12 months old. You don’t even talk about the fact that we improved from our 8-4 record. He did what you wanted him to do, he improved.
You are acting like a spoiled petulant child that did not get a Red Rider B-B Gun for x-mas. You are throwing a temper-tantrum over improving and being ranked 16 in the nation. It is tiresome for me and Stew sticking up for your own team against your own fans.
You want to talk about selective memory. Do you remember this program before the ’05 season? You act as if we have been on top for our entire history.
There is nothing wrong with having high expectations. I want to win a national title every year. Those are pretty lofty expectations. However, if we don’t do it, I can still be happy with a team that is young and improving year after year.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
Amen, brother.
I have nothing to add. Beautifully stated.
If you can’t see that this team hasn’t Played up to its full potential, then I can see why you would be very happy with 9-3.
by The 25314 on Dec 7, 2009 2:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I never said the team has played to its full potential.
We should be 11-1 right now. I put one on the players and one on the coach/ref. Having said that why does everyone want to sit around and bitch and moan and cry about it. 9-3, ranked 16 and playing in a New Year’s Day bowl game is not bad.
While you are not dancing in the streets you should still be happy about it. Why do you take so much sadness from Mountaineer sports. Look at the positives of our season. It is not our job to correct our team’s mistakes. So get over it and look at the positives.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 7, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa.
This is a blog dedicated to Mountaineer sports. I can only make fun of Wannstedt so much — of course we point out the mistakes.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 7, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
wasn't my point
I meant those that point out every single little thing that was wrong with any given game
Everyone be careful or Country roads and 5th year will take you our for being unhappy with their man crush.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 7, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Well
You still never replied to my question in the last thread…
And for the record, I agree with the points that charley made above. Stew is definitely being overly sensitive and protective here. Maybe he shouldn’t care what people think, but maybe he realizes that public opinion can affect a program. So maybe he’s rightfully defensive? I’m not sure what to think.
Again, I think we would all like to see some improvements, particularly in ko coverage, ol play, and offensive consistency. But as long as we keep winning games and show no objective signs of slipping, I’m going to br happy. No team is great in every phase every year, and I don’t expect us to be any different.
by Country Roads on Dec 7, 2009 8:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Honestly, I agree with Dr. West and it irks me to hear all these people talking up UC, they weren’t shit and still shouldn’t be shit. The fact that people think they have superior overall talent to WVU are smoking crack. What they do have is a superior coaching staff, or at least a better part of it. As for Bill showing some fire, good for him.
Of course, no one is against him showing fire.
But when we see that fire, it is usually pointed at the media interviewing him. If we could just redirect it towards the opposing team…
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 7, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
So you wouldn’t trade Toney Pike and Mardy Gilliyard for J Brown and Arlic Arnett straight up?
To play devil's advocate:
Tony Pike was a 5th string QB as late as early last season. Jarrett Brown was a mobile, 6’3" 230 lb. behemoth with a cannon for an arm and great scrambling ability. He had meaningful game experienced and was projected as a potential first-round draft pick. So what happened?
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 7, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently
There is a reason Brown never came close to pushing White.
I agree that Brown has been a dissapointment, but I’m not sure it is all coaching. Was it Rod’s fault Gwaltney was a bust?
I will say
It seems that none of Brown’s bad habits have been coached out of him- like throwing off his back foot.
Or carrying the football like it's El Diablo, spanish for fighting chicken.
There are just so many mistakes that he makes that he shouldn’t. It may not be all coaching, but it certainly is the prime suspect.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 7, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
or at least their coach. I am so sick of all the post game man-love he deal out. Just give the dude a wurther’s and get to the locker room!
It is called respect.
Every coach in the nation shows respect to their opponents.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 7, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
The Cincinnati Game
He mentioned the Cincinnati game a few times and I’m tired of hearing about it..I DONT CARE if Cincinnati was 5th in the nation, BE Champs LAST year, I DONT CARE ABOUT HOW GOOD Cincinnati IS or WAS…If your a well prepared team, and you believe that you are good coach..then you should win and those 3 losses were squarely on bad coaching decisions. NOW having said that, I am good with 9-3. But we still sucked on special teams ( Bill Stewart) and we left point on the field (Mullns or Stewart) Finally Jarret Brown was just not very good, especiially since the concussion.
Stew dont preach, coach. I like how you support your guys..thats admirable. I think you are a good coach and a well respected indivdual but take the heat like a man.
KEN
Wow
The conversation here, you wouldn’t think this team won 9 games, 2nd in the Big East, beat Pitt and ruined their season (ok started the downward spiral) and was selected to the Gator Bowl. You’d think that he was more of 3-9 or 4-8.
I like HCBS. I like that he wants the players to be accountable and that he doesn’t call them out in the media or destory their character. He is trying to build them into men who are going to be representatives of WVU, and for that matter in the opinion of many across the country, the state of WV.
The guy improved from year one to year two of his regime. Oh you will say that was such a great team he inherited. Ok, he inherited PW, but the other 2/3 of that starting backfield went to the NFL. I applaud his effort. He is trying to build a quality program that people can respect and appreciate, not a system like Da U of the 80’s and 90’s.
Sometimes, on both sides of the fence here, we need to step back and take a breath and look at the big picture. We’re not as bad as you think, but we can improve.
Just my take.
by BurghMountaineer on Dec 7, 2009 5:01 PM EST reply actions
FYP, Bill
the y stands for “you” and the p for “pal”..you figure the rest. The aspects of the game that Bill is directly responsible for are THE WORST parts of this years team. There is no argument about that. The way Bill handles himself and this team is an embarrassment. You all know he needs to go. “Anything that needs to be done eventually, needs to be done immediately.”
He is responsible
For the field goal team, punt coverage, kick off return and punt return. They are all pretty good.
His KO team has been a disaster, but to say everything is bad is a bit over the top.
The KO team is so bad
that I personally feel it trumps anything else. I mean, it’s awful. That Bill Stewart doesn’t apologize to me every single day in a handwritten letter is a personal affront (OK, exaggerating a bit).
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 7, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
How about a coach that unites rather than divides?
There is no question that HCBS is a really likable guy and there are some, like Dr. Charley’s Papaw, who think some fans want Stewart to lose just to prove their point. But being likable is highly overestimated and head coaches are not hired to be everybody’s friend (including opposing coaches after games). And from one fan’s perspective it seems he is including the team with his coaching approach. I wonder what this team with its athletic potential COULD have achieved . . .
PS – Thank God for “Money-in-the-Bank” Bitancurt!
by Dr. Charley's Mama on Dec 7, 2009 7:23 PM EST reply actions
This team could've been 11-1
I like thinking about what we could’ve been too but when I look at our current record and ranking, I am happy.
We are all glad to hear from you. Thank you for your visit.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 7, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
So why are we happy with 9-3 when we could have easily been 11-1?
I understand all breaks aren’t going to go your way, but a two game swing is pretty significant.
You keep bringing up Glover’s quote about winning instead of tanking the season. Are we supposed to feel proud that the team didn’t throw in the towel. Personally, I’m more concerned that the thought even entered the team’s minds.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 7, 2009 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
What good does it do for me to piss and moan all day?
It does no good at all. I understand that you want to be better. We all do, including the players and coaches. Why be miserable about a team you love? I would love to be 12-0 but I am happy we are 9-3, 16 in the nation and going to a new years day bowl.
Are you kidding me with your last statement? Hell yes, we should be proud that our guys stood tall through adversity. We took some tough loses and our guys never gave up.
I know you played sports at a high level, so you cannot tell me that self doubt never crept into your mind. Getting over that doubt/fear is what seperates the winners from the losers. You get hit by a pitch, you dust yourself off, run to first base and pray you get to hit again. The next time you come up to the plate you crowd the plate even more and dare the pitcher to come inside. When he does come inside, you don’t flinch and take it the other way. If you lose a close you game and the next game is looking oddly familiar, you have to step up and make plays to ensure that you do not get another L in your column.
Of course we should be proud of our guys.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 7, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
What good does it do to smile all day? Choosing to be happy with under performing is just because you love a team is The definition of accepting mediocrity.
You Normally grade the team out rather fairly, with alot of c’s and b-’s. Every single game with those unimpressive grades, which we agree upon. But when someone says the team is unimpressive you disagree. We both see a less than great and unimproving team every week yet the conclusions we draw are sompletely different.
I don’t choose to be unhappy.
by The 25314 on Dec 8, 2009 12:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Its possible to be happy
And yet still want to improve. Didn’t we cover that already?
I think 5ys is critical with his grades, but happy with the result, despite those grades. Nothing wrong with that.
And everytime someone asks “what good does it do to be negative” is the reply always “what good does it do to be positive?” Can’t you just answer the damn question? Or do you realize deep down that it doesn’t do any good, so you just come back with another question?
by Country Roads on Dec 8, 2009 7:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I will ask again...
What good does it do me to walk around pissed off at Mountaineer football?
Being happy with an underperforming team is not the definition of accepting mediocrity. It is the definition of being happy.
Then again, being ranked 16 in the nation, is not mediocre. If you think it is, you are an idiot.
Having said that, would I be “happy” with a mediocre team? Why not, because at the end of the day, me accepting mediocrity, has no impact on how our team performs. None. Zip. Nada.
You say you do not choose to be unhappy, I would assume you wanted to finish that statement with, “This coach, makes me unhappy.”
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 8, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Completely disagree
Being happy with an underperforming team is not the definition of accepting mediocrity. It is the definition of being happy.
I don’t believe this to be true at all — and frankly, it doesn’t make much sense to me.
If you think Bill Stewart underachieved with this team based on his talent, then I certainly hope you think this season is a disappointment. If you think he did all he could with his players, which even at 9-3 I still don’t, then I hope you are satisfied. But to say being happy with an underperforming team is the definition of being happy doesn’t hold much (or any) water to me.
What would it take to make you unhappy with Mountaineer sports? If you say nothing, I can understand that. But still, you can’t get upset at someone being disappointed with a team that they feel underachieved. And, as 25314 pointed out with your grades, it sure seems you think they underachieved, too.
Having said that, would I be "happy" with a mediocre team? Why not, because at the end of the day, me accepting mediocrity, has no impact on how our team performs. None. Zip. Nada.
You are a booster, correct? Why do you think coaches are hired and fired? Money. You have a lot of control over how the team performs. Maybe not as much as Bob Reynolds, etc., but you have control. Saying you don’t is a huge misnomer.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 8, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Am I speaking Mayan?
It is possible for a person to think a team could do better, i.e. my mid-level grades, and be happy with the end result of that performance, i.e. winning. How many different ways do I need to say that? Is it that hard of a concept to understand? I would’ve loved it if we went 12-0 and were playing for a national championship. That was possible but I cannot say that 9-3, ranked 16 and going to a New Year’s Day bowl is a horrible result this season. We could’ve done better but we improved from last year and could have a 10 win season.
You have a lot of control over how the team performs
Yes, you said exactly what I expected and wanted someone to say. Of course, we as fans can have an impact on the way a team performs. You choose to make it harder for them to win by booing and taking money away from the program to prove a point. How can you sit there and piss and moan about a coach that you think is making this team underperform, when you are also causing said underperformance by your actions?
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 8, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Hold on now.
Yes, you said exactly what I expected and wanted someone to say. Of course, we as fans can have an impact on the way a team performs. You choose to make it harder for them to win by booing and taking money away from the program to prove a point.
We both know for a fact I never boo at Mountaineer games and I am virtually always in some seat at Mountaineer Field come game time. So let’s not go down that road.
How can you sit there and piss and moan about a coach that you think is making this team underperform, when you are also causing said underperformance by your actions?
By being critical of a coach, I am not undermining that program. Personally, and I hate to seem so noble here, but I think it’s my duty.
I think Dave Johnson should be fired. In two years, our offensive line play has been at best mediocre and at worst atrocious, causing us to lose games throughout both seasons. So how do I get that point across to the staff? Well, my only megaphone is this site, so I come on here and say exactly what I feel, “Dave Johnson should be fired — yesterday.” If enough fans and boosters feel the same way I do, then eventually, the pressure will become too much on HCBS and he will have no other choice but to replace Johnson. Then, I feel we’ve done our job to keep the staff accountable.
OK OK, is it really our job? No, of course it’s not. But still, that’s how programs work these days.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 8, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
When I said "actions"...
I meant taking money away from the program not being critical. I understand money makes the program run but if you want to get better the program needs money. You can pledge not to donate money that will go to pay the salary of a coach but to take it away from facilities or uniforms or scholarships is putting the program in a position where it is behind the 8 ball and would take a good amount of time to recover.
That is causing underperformance.
I should’ve been more clear. I apologize because it is important to be fair and open your feelings on a coach. That is how change is made.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 8, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
We're a long way from pulling money away.
At some point, and we’re not even close, pulling money away might needed. It’s a last resort. And we would have to have a few awful seasons for me to even start considering that.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 8, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
OK, I admit...
I wrote this: http://www.smokingmusket.com/2008/10/13/i-will-boo-if-i-damn-well-please/
I should have said, “I rarely boo.”
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 8, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
I also agree with Charley's Papaw.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 7, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
South, Fifth, C Roads....
…I admire you guys. But seriously, why even have these battles anymore?….I’ve pretty given up on trying to argue the fatalism/ignorance/inanity our of a bunch of addlepates I will never actually meet.
You three, however…I’ll be at the Gator Bowl, staying at the Hyatt. Let’s congregate at a bar, drink some beers, and eat some jelly beans.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
I'm not a big jelly bean guy...
can we buy some Twizzler’s instead?
Actually, I will not be in Jacksonville as my woman’s friend is getting married on the Jan. 2. If I had money to pay for flights, I would go but unemployment does not pay enough for me to splurge on a trip to the Gator Bowl.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 8, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
Hard Candy...
…agreed. Jelly beans suck. Spree for me.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
I doubt anyone here is ignorant, we reach different conclusions with the same info. I know for a fact that I am nowhere close ignorant about wvu sports.
To me the fatalism is going 8-4 and 9-3 and not expecting anything more, thinking wvu can’t do any better.
I am also not inane. In fact, most ofthe time I am crticized for using pesky stats to back up the obvious eyeball test that our offense flat out sucks.
However, I love jelly beans, save for that blasted licorice bean that ruins the whole jar.
by The 25314 on Dec 8, 2009 10:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You see a glass that is half full, Columbus sees a glass that is half empty, and I see a glass that is twice as big as it needs to be.
by The 25314 on Dec 8, 2009 10:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who Says Anyone Thinks We Can't Do Better?
That is an obfuscation…of course, we want better….but to insinuate the season is a failure at 9-3 is bullshit.
Zip, I have a grudging respect for you…I just don’t know how you arrive at some of your conclusions…
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
There are extremes in every bunch.
but to insinuate the season is a failure at 9-3 is bullshit.
I think very few on this site see the season as a failure at 9-3. I certainly don’t. But too many negative things happened, negative things that were easily correctable, for me to agree that this season was a success. I hope we see a lot of improvement in the offseason, but based on continued failures with the offensive line and kickoff coverage, I am not in the most optimistic mood right now.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 8, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
You can be happy with 9-3 but still expect more and knowing we can do better. Is that a totally stupid statement?
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 8, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
One man's fatalism...
…is another’s realistic evaluation. There seems to be two distinct camps in ANY group of sports fans. There are those who find it criminal to suggest that a team may have some flaws.
The other group are fans who support the team, but may also have a critique or two regarding genuine concerns. They pull for the team, live and die with the good and the bad, but evaluate outcomes differently than the “my team right-or-wrong” fans.
This is great website in that both the Nancy’s (as we’ve been innacurately labeled, but will proudly wear as the epithet its intended to be) and those of the rose-colored-glasses, the sun will come out tomorrow camp. Any worthwhile, interesting dialogue needs both to be successful, because there are too many echo-chambers. Neither side should give any quarter…once a Nancy always a Nancy!
The Ol' "I'm A Realist..." Tactic
I wouldn’t agree that there are only two camps here. Hell, I am critical of the coaching staff…My personal view is that we’ve underachieved not because of field coaching, but because the coach didn’t bench an ineffective quarterback. I hate to say it, but I think Stew and especially, Mullen, have been handicapped by JB’s inablity to run the offense. It explains why the middle of the field has virtually evaporated as an area we look to for offense. I’ve even previously posted about our abysmal offense and things haven’t improved since I wrote that post. I don’t think it is “criminal to suggest the team has flaws.” Every team has flaws, I think ours have only cost us one game – South Florida. Auburn, the offense was humming and we turned it over. Cincy, despite the ridiculous insinuation that they aren’t any good because they haven’t been in the previous 100 years, was a close loss to a top-level team.
You are being a bit too rosy in describing one of the camps that come here as those who" support the team, but may also have a critique or two regarding genuine concers." A critique or two? Please…there have been full on attacks from the likes of “no-need-for-me-to-name-them” since the second this guy was hired, with people saying Stew must go, Eddie P sucks (despite the fact that he has made some of the best hires in Mountaineer history) and Stew is an idiot, a buffoon, our team flat-out sucks (9-3…Gator Bowl…yeah, we blow…I use peksy stats, too…remember the post about how many teams finish in the Top 10 every year…answer: none…interestingly no one responded to that one) etc….those aren’t critiques. Those are inane broadsides from select members of a rabid fan base that give all of us a bad fucking name.
I will tell you this: invariably, people who say they are realists, also can’t live without the word “can’t.” I mean really, consider a book like Think and Grow Rich….one truth that emerges from those several stories of success is that no one who thought themselves a realist ever became wildly successful in his endeavors. Everyone around those guys told them they were crazy, it would never work, it wasn’t realistic.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
"Just When I Though I Was Out....They Pull Me Back In..."
…and I said I was giving up on arguing. Bad self! Bad self!
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
It's Jimmy V Week.
Don’t give up, don’t ever give up!
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 8, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Not so fast JP
A fan can evaluate a game using whatever metric he chooses. I’m not defending those few who choose only to see the bad, just as you would probably not defend someone who saw only the good. What I am defending is the right to call a spade a spade. Rational discussions can be had with opposing viewpoints. Thinking in shades of gray allows for the full spectrum of fan beliefs. Most who post here are in the various grays and few if any would be labeled black or white.
I do agree however that the players and coaches can’t say “can’t” or they’ll never achieve.
I Agree 100 Percent....
…but the key word is “rational.” Every dispute seems to be colored by the coach knows what he is doing and we respect him vs. the coach is a doofus who knows nothing. I agree that there have been PLENTY of decisions he has made that have made me utter WTF?!? but even in his making those WTF decisions, I don’t think it means the progam is in decline. Believe me, I am a shades of gray fellow. I have said for years, regarding politics, that our central problem as a country is that we have 500 television channels, 31 flavors of ice cream and two political parties, both of which just paint each other as devils.
Now, granted…there are some people here I view as devils…and most of my sunshine and rainbow posts are meant to countermand them….because if they don’t get countermanded, a tidal wave of negativity seems to overtake the fanbase, or at least the people that come to this site. Here is the thing…I am one of the people that defends Stew…but what most would be shocked to find out is that I am only defending him because I believe time is the fairest judge. He deserves his time. If, in five years, he never betters nine wins, if he never wins a big east title, if he never gets us to a BCS bowl…if he doesn’t find a way, in his time to run the table and get us a shot at a championship….I will be one of the people saying why he should go, and giving reasoned, fact-based reasons for it.
I do think he is a “Can-Do” guy. And everyone is telling him he can’t. And throughout history, there are many people who have succeeded at the highest level in those circumstances. I hope Stew is one of them.
Now is the time boys to make a big noise.
No matter what the people say,
For there is naught to fear, the gang's all here,
So hail West Virginia, hail.
Sorry to make this racial but
It is not a black and white issue.
Adding onto what JP said, everyone and I mean EVERYONE can see that this team has flaws. I point them out every week in my grades post.
My biggest problem is that some people find it impossible to say anything positive at any time. They only want to point out the negative. This is shown by the fact that after a WVU loss this blog’s page views go sky high but after a win our page views go down. People want to hate more than they want to congratulate.
I also realized I have no what we are discussing anymore. Are we discussing the team’s performance or are we talking about how happy I am? Oh well.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 8, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
At the end of the day...
We are all Mountaineer fans that just want what is best for our program. We all have differing views of Stew, the assistants and the players. We all need to remember that during the game, 99% of us want WVU to beat the shit out of our opponent.
We might be divided during the week but come gameday 99% of us want the same result, a WVU victory.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Dec 8, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions
Honestly, I don't know where I stand
I want this team to go 12-0 and a BCS game every year. Realistically I understand that can’t happen, so 9-3 is not too bad to me. BUT I look at Cincy and at Auburn and shake my head, because they could/should have won those games. South Florida, simply they laid an egg. So yes, I’m disappointed because they could have been 11-1 and in the BCS picture, but they aren’t.
So the question is, who is to blame? The players? The coaches? The refs? The vendors? The party girls who had the guys too relaxed? Your Mom? My Mom?
I just don’t know. You have to spread it evenly, with the exception of my mom as she only pays attention to know when to tell my dad to quit yelling at the t.v. (My wife does the same to me now)
I can not give up on HCBS and his staff, even though I think changes should be made. In particular, I don’t want to give up on HCBS. Every coach asks to be evaluated on the talent they recruit and have in the system. Shouldn’t we give him that chance?
I understand everyone wants to win, I believe that entire team and coaching staff wants to win. What I don’t understand is why some people want to bash him for being a classy guy and trying to build relationships with coaches. Coaching is a fraternity, and it seems all these other coaches love Bill Stewart. I would say that will help him and the program in the future. Honestly, what is it hurting? He spends a few extra minutes on the field talking to a coach. There is always room for goodwill. It helps a program.
Call me a nancy boy or whatever. I want this program to succeed and to compete. I can not say that he is taking it in the wrong direction. Maybe he’s going slower than we want, but he’s not going in reverse. As always, we could be doing much much worse right now.
Let’s Go Mountaineers!
by BurghMountaineer on Dec 8, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions
Pretty even take.
I can not give up on HCBS and his staff, even though I think changes should be made. In particular, I don’t want to give up on HCBS. Every coach asks to be evaluated on the talent they recruit and have in the system. Shouldn’t we give him that chance?
I agree with allowing him to get his own players in the system, but I have one major problem: his hyping of players in the offseason that either 1) were never that good; or 2) the coaches failed to capitalize on. I point specifically to the offensive line, and even more specifically to Donny Barclay. I have no problems with Barclay specifically, but when Stewart spends the entire offseason telling us how good he is, he better be that good. He wasn’t, and now who do I blame? I initially go to Dave Johnson, because he’s his position coach (not to mention the coach of other problems like Jenkins and Capers), but I have to go back to Stewart at the end of the day. If not for his hype, maybe I wouldn’t be so damn disappointed.
So, yes to allowing him to get his own talent in the system. But he obviously felt pretty strongly about the talent he already had.
by Dr. Charley West on Dec 8, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you on that
He did overhype, but he was trying to sell his players on how good they were and trying to get all of us to back them. A little too much does go a long way, but at least he was supporting them so that’s a good thing.
All in all, I think we need a quality, QUALITY hump day post soon to get us all out of this funk. It can’t hurt.
by BurghMountaineer on Dec 8, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
My take
Charley, why do you need to place blame for your disappointment? Were you hurt that nbadly that whoever did it must be called out or possibly villified?
The conclusion I have come to is that we are all critical of some aspects and we all want to do better. It’s when the criticism turns to stuff like “stew can’t lead this program” " we can’t win with stew" and “the program is regressing so I won’t watch anymore.” that I can’t take.
by Country Roads on Dec 8, 2009 3:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
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