TSM Coaching Approval O'Meter (Post-Louisville, 2009)
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 1:00 PM EST
in HCBS
65 comments
In the words of 5th Year Senior, "another game, another win." In the words of me, "another game, barf."
Really, even considering we've lost two games, this was probably the worst performance from WVU this season. I really can't point to anything we did outstandingly well. I guess Kozlowski played well. And we covered kick-offs well. Then again, when you only score 17 points, the kick-off coverage team can be well rested.
So, based on the above, my vote still goes to "no" this week. Where does your vote land?
Remember, after you vote, please leave your thoughts on the job HCBS & Co. are doing in the comments...
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In the words of Marv Albert..
YES!
While playing poorly could be a precursor of things to come, I am going to live in the present and celebrate another Mountaineer victory.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
What do you mean "things to come?"
It’s not like we’re 9-0 by the skin of our teeth. You’ve already seen this team fall flat on its face. It’s not a could, it’s when bad things are going to happen. I know this because they already have.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Things to come is the future
We have seen the team fall flat but we have also seen some good things. We have no clue how they are going to come out Friday against Cincy.
Using your argument the exact opposite way… We have seen this team win some ugly games. It’s not a could, it’s when are we going to get another win. I know this because we have already done it 7 times.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 9, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I have a pretty good idea how we're going to come out against Cincinnati.
I think most people do.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm glad most people agree that we will win.
(Smiley face)
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 9, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Another point:
Those vaunted 7 wins? They have come against opponents with a combined W-L record of 23-31. Stellar.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
2003
Did you really think we would go out and almost beat the #2 Miami Hurricanes at their place after starting 1-3 with losses to Wisconsin, Cincinnati, and Maryland (which was a 34-7 blowout, by the way)? Tell me you saw that one coming.
Or how about 2007, when a horrible 4-7 Pitt team upset the #2 team in the country, 13-9, after that team had just put up 66 points against a ranked team the week before. You predicted that too, right?
My point is that sometimes in sports, things don’t always go the way everyone thinks they will go. I concede that all the evidence points to a Cincinnati blowout. But I also maintain that you never know what could happen. And to me, holding out hope against all odds is part of the fun in being a WVU fan.
by Country Roads on Nov 9, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve mentioned that very Miami game to a couple people this week. That game made me truly believe that anything can happen in football on any given night, it can happen, and Friday wenall want it to happen. But just like that Miami game in 2003 ( which was as low as mountaineer football has been until now) it’s just so hard to believe from what we’ve seen. Rich rod went out and made me believe even in a loss, and from then on, the program was pretty much rolling. Hopefully stew can do the same thing. But just like before oct.2 2003, it’s sooo hard to believe.
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 4:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No
And I hate to vote that way. But the question reads “Bill Stewart AND STAFF.” Bill Stewart, yes. He seemed more like a coach this weekend, at least to me, than he has in his entire tenure. His staff? Maybe Old Billy Ball Coach needs to put his foot down and either tell these guys how it’s gonna be, or just get rid of them and bring in someone else. Mullen, Casteel—both of you get your shit together or get out.
It’s the best staff in America or do you not get the paper?
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 1:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
See, it's this type of comment that weakens all your others
What does this add to the discussion?
Generally, you make good points, but it’s this kind of snark that will anger people over other legitimate comments (Lider, etc.).
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
It adds a light hearted moment and hopefully some grins from people that aren’t aware that you’ve cornered the market on the right to make a joke.
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 2:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The fact thay there needs to be a poll on whether we are succeeding shows me the answer.
I abstain from voting though because there will be plenty of no votes without me and frankly, I’m not that down on the team anymore. I’ve come to grips that we just aren’t good and expecting more is a waste of negative energy.
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 1:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Keep on living the dream because...
Your wishes that the team fail so we can get a new head ball coach may come true but I sure as hell hope not. You are the type of fan that is ruining the atmosphere at Mountaineer Field
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 9, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
I use the term...
WE very loosely there because you are obviously rooting against this team.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 9, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
It appears that way from here because...
All I see from you is negativity. I’m not meaning to come across in a mean or better than you manner, if I am I apologize. I just don’t understand how you can see no good in Mountaineer football.
I know we have not looked like world beaters in most of our victories but there are still some positives. I am so overly positive because nobody else wants to talk about it. Everyone wants to focus on what is wrong. I am just trying to point out some positives.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 9, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Telling someone they are ruining Mountaineer football is not "pointing out some positives"
I am proof that you can want Bill Stewart to succeed but have very little confidence in that happening.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Never said I was going to be positivie 24/7
Even I run out of the medication that keeps me happy.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 9, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
“So I was sitting in the stands today, and I realized, ever since Stew started coaching, every single game of the season has been worse than the game before it. So that means that every single game that you see me, I’m watching the worst game of my life.”
Office Space jokes aside, I was fist-pumping and high-fiving in Scottsdale the day after the Fiesta Bowl. I thought that this gravy train could never end and that Stew could keep us going to the promised land. Hell, I look back on that morning with nostalgia, like it was 50 years ago when times were good. I remember the goddamn conversation where I pondered if White and Stew would win the National Mother Fucking Title and stick it to Rod (WVU opened at 16/1 to win it all that year). I’d give just about anything for this to be low-tide in Stew’s tenure and that five years from now people could rib me about when I thought Stew was an idiot. But the poll isn’t about what I want, it’s about where I think we’re headed.
You guys ought to make another poll along the lines of, “Do you want WVU football to horribly fail over the next 18 months in order to jettison Stewart more quickly?” I’d be astonished if the Yes vote from actual Mountaineer fans was higher than 3%. I’m pretty down on Stewart (as the previous paragraph of pity-wrath may indicate) and I’d be an easy No vote.
STOP RUINING IT DOUBLE U!!
You’re like a terrorist sneaking into the stadium under the pretense of cheering but instead your goal is the destruction of mountaineer football and you are running our fan base into the ground. But you can keep showing up because there is no such thing as a bad ticket sold.
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 2:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
that was probably overly snarky, and I don’t mean anything by it, just a joke, so I appplogize n advance.
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 2:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nah, I actually liked that one.
I am like the humor coach in Borat. Basically anything I do is bound to be hysterical, like Knock Knock jokes.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I would hope that...
We all want what is best for the program but to me it seems like some people want us to fail so we can get a new coach. That is my point.
I hope you are not one of those people.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 9, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Also...
I would rather win under a coach that I hate, than lose under a coach that I love.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 9, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Couldn't agree more.
Hence my Lane Kiffin quandary last week.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
5th Year Senior
Less than a third of the people who have voted so far are positive on this coaching staff. You need to come to realization that you are in the minority. This is no longer about others being irrationally against Bill Stewart & Co., this is now about you being irrationally for Bill Stewart & Co.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 2:43 PM EST reply actions
We are all Mountaineer fans!
What happened to your feelings from this post just a few months ago?
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 9, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I still believe what I wrote.
You don’t see me trying to blow up posters that dislike or like Stewart. But to expect everyone to get in line and support something that doesn’t seem to be working is a little much.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
No
Unless I can write in a vote for Hell No.
this wasn’t just the worst team in the league we squeaked by. This was at home in perfect weather against a hopeless team with a lame duck coach playing its 3rd string QB(walk on) and RB. It was the worst defense in the conference against both the rush and the pass.
Considering who the defense was up aganst, I’m not nearly as impressed as some people.
The offense was just putrid. No big plays. A red zone turnover by our helpless QB.
It was a very unimpressive showing.
Unless we see a completely different team show up Friday than we have for the last 4-5 games it is going to get ugly.
by Beamer'sGoiter on Nov 9, 2009 2:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'll admit I was overly optimistic at the beginning of the season
This team just doesn’t have the talent on OL, depth at DL or true DB’s other than a couple safeties. I only have a problem with one member of the staff. I don’t think Johnson is the right guy for the OL, but at the same time, who else is he gonna play if he decides to try and light a fire in some of the guys by sitting one or more of them?
Instant gratification, knee jerk reaction doesn’t work in football in the long run…..different set of rules, but look at the Washington Redskins (who I have absolutely no love for). They have an owner who treats his team like a fantasy team and I’m seeing the same types of reactions being called for by our fans. These are college kids who need to develop and you can’t just cut them and sign a bunch of free agents or trade to replace them, so….fans are asking for the next thing available to them….replace the coach.
Coaching can make players look more or leas talented then they really are. Jarrett brown looked better as a true freshman then he does now. If you watched the last 5 games you would say he isnt talented, but he is. The o line has talent they just aren’t coached well, and that means every day from Jan 1 to dec 31. Most college snacks played other positions in high school, a high school coach isn’t going to waste his best athletes at db. we all used to complain rich rod jogged all the talent for offense, but now we send an uber athlete like hogan and strong football player like Sowers to D and we complain about that too. Fact is the D is what it is and what it generally has been for 8 years. The O is what I blame. But that’s no secret.
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 3:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can't take your comparison about JB seriously
when he’s coming off the affects of a concussion that no one knows how serious it was or how long it takes to shake the affects, much less the knock to your confidence/being scared to get hit again.
IMO, the O starts and ends up front and we haven’t recruited those positions well the last couple years (sometimes guys just don’t pan out…with or w/o a good line coach). It even took a perceived guru like Trickett several years to get the OL to perform consistently.
that thought crossed my mind too, actually
my only guess is he is more able to escape when the OL breaks down as it seems to inevitably does
Fair enough, but 1) trickery had us solid by year 2 in 2002…(‘03 struggled at first but turned the corner in a major way..I’ll always remember richrod at pig stock 2 days before Wisconsin when rim brown had just torn his acl and richrod was about to concede the season, but trickett went to work and plugged in Jeremy Hines Dan Moses and jermy sheffy – a bunch of undersized nobodies- and we went out and closed the year by hitting teams in the mouth and winning our last 7)
2) like I said before all these guys were more highly sought after than who I just mentioned.
3) perfect example of how coaching can make someone look more o less talented…07 line was pretty solid…08 line with exact same players looked completely untalented.
4) o line is the most difficult position to evaluate “talent” from the stands. You can see strength, which is the responsibility of mike Joseph, and you can tell Iif they blocked someone or not. But you can’t tell if they misses their assignment, used I
proper technique, etc. HOWEVER, the moat important thing on o line is toughness and we don’t have that, and that comes predominately from coaching and training.
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 4:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think
you just argued my points for me, other than the recruiting/OL talent part. The coaches have made heavy strides in the recruiting department….even so, who knows who’ll pan out until we get them on campus and in the program?
I’m of the opinion that some of the guys we got aren’t that good and/or are maybe a little lazy based on things I’ve read from people who seem to be in the know. Couple that with a (IMO) OL coach who may not be getting it done and has even less talent to plug in if he were to sit guys.
Johnson is the only coach I have a problem with at this point. And even then who, other than the guys that work with them everyday (coaches, staff, etc) truly knows what he has to work with?
So either rich rod struck gold with every 2 star he recruited, he had a better eye for hidden talent than the current staff, his coaching staff maximized it better, or he recruited talented players for the first 5-6 years he was here only to completely stop right before he left.
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 4:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm just saying that the guys he had/found (Mozes, Scheffey, etc)
panned out better, fit better to his system, maybe they had a better work ethic, responded better to Trick than these guys do to Johnson, and even yes, to an extent, the things you listed.
There are too many variables to pin it to one cause = one effect, as many of our fans are trying to do. it’s a combination of everything.
But…one thing I will lay at RR’s feet (OL-wise) is that the OL he recruited were for a zone blocking scheme with minimal to no pass blocking (and I don’t want the whole, “then why not use the system in place, why change?” argument to get going again.) Coaches and systems change, it happened, no looking back now. As I said, this is just part of it.
Wait
Are you saying that maybe, just maybe, the situation is more complex that people are making it out to be? Noooooo. That can’t be the case. Can it?
by Country Roads on Nov 10, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I agree to the complexities. Alot of coaching success is mysterious in nature. It isn’t always easy to tell what makes one successful and another unsuccessful. But just like you don’t have to be able to recognize each chord the beatles played to know That overall they’re good, you can simply watch this team and tell they aren’t.
by The 25314 on Nov 10, 2009 5:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
NO
My first no all season…last week I was on the fence but went with my heart, this week I almost did the same but my heart said “are you kidding, really?”
Now…I think we get Cincinnati at the right time. This game has been sold out all season..they are 9-0 and ranked #5…this sounds familiar. This will be their trap game but we have to play error free football from whistle to whistle in order to pull off the upset…
KEN
One more thing on JB
Does he posess leadership? Doesnt look like it. I dont see a team rallying behind this guy. Leadership may be the missing lnk on this team…who is the LEADER?
KEN
Usually, O-Lines block for who they want
That’s why you see unpopular QBs get benched and suddenly, the blocking gets much better.
The problem is I don’t think this OL can block for anyone, leadership or not from our QB. Now, leadership for their OL coach? That’s a different story.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
No, No, a thousand times NO! I think BS is at fault to the extent I don’t see ant possibility that Mullens and Johnson will be gone at the end of the season. Mullens’ play calling smacks of Saturday morning sandlot ball. Gimmicky motion and multiple sets that do nothing to move the ball forward. Is it any wonder JB is scrambling when you have a 5 receiver set and the DL can pass rush with no concern about a run, especially when JB is almost never used as a running option. He runs for his life, buts that is about all. How about a two back set with a combined weight of over 350 lbs? How about using the FB on 3rd and short or 2nd and short or how about using one at all. Sometimes less is more. Try simplifying the offensive sets and blocking schemes, eliminate all the unneccessary motion, and execute a few plays well instead of poorly executing a thousand.
We have at least two dual threat QBs and neither is running any significant read option or option pitch. I recall two weeks ago JB ran an option pitch to Tavon ONCE for 19 yards and we never saw the play again. I guess we wouldn’t want the opposition to think we might run the same play twice. Fire the OL coach (it really couldn’t get much worse even if we didn’t have one) and give the play calling to Beatty to see if he can breathe some life into the offense. Mullens can stay home and we will do fine.
New rule:
You have to actually know the offensive coordinator’s name to be able to criticize him. That’s not too much to ask, is it?
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Real Quick
I think you make a good point about executing a few things well rather than trying to do many things and being average at best at all of them. I don’t think we’ve found an identity on offense quite yet.
I do disagree with you regarding the FB post. Ryan Clarke has been used almost exclusively in short yardage situations, and has been quite successful at it. So I’m not sure where you’re coming from on that….
by Country Roads on Nov 9, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
See My “Jack of all trades, masters of none”
you get better at something through practice and repetition. Should we practice one play 25 times or 5 plays 5 times each. The secret is finding the balance, which we haven’t done yet.
by The 25314 on Nov 9, 2009 4:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
By the 3rd quarter...
I was so bored that I minimized the game on ESPN360 in favor of playing Solitaire. And not even Spider Solitaire, just regular old Solitaire. So, NO!
HCBS/Staff & Players
I did vote “NO” for the current job they are doing but a lot of blame has to be put on our players too at many times. We have too much talent on this team,both offense & defense, not to be able to stay in a game against USF. It is not just the coaching all the time, it has to be the mind set of the players going into these games. The coaches can only do so much to try and get the players ready and then the players have to go out and get it done.
Let’s hope we have the mind set this Friday night to beat Cinci…we can do it!!!!!
Oh, by the way, the last game we played, against Louisville, was a W, that’s the important thing for the team and all WV fans.
Still A Yes...
I know. Not revelatory….but, as I wrote elsewhere, bring back the week 3 offense, please! And Doc West, you are really one interesting fan…
I have a very short attention span.
I am an optimist at heart, I really am. I want to believe in Bill Stewart. But, just like last season, he’s making it very difficult for even some of the most optimistic.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 9, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I Know!
…as you have probably ascertained, I am one of those “most optimistic.” But the last two weeks have been hard. But this is college football. One big effort changes ol’ Mo doublequick. Witness the loss to Miami back in ’03. My goal at the beginning of the year was more wins than last season, and that is still within reach.
Let’s Go!!!!
an appropriate quote
“We have a lot of anxieties, and one cancels out another very often”
-Winston Churchill
by The Squirrel Hunter on Nov 10, 2009 12:34 PM EST reply actions
yes
if this were year 4 and we were this lackluster, i’d say, yeah, there are some things not getting done.
given the tinkering with the system continues and we’re still pulling out games, we’re doing ok — not clicking like richrod year 7, but ok — especially if one considers, say, year 2 of the steve kragthorpe at louisville era.
that said, how we play against cincinnati is going to tell me what kind of staff we’ve got.
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