What Will Noel Devine's Decision On The NFL Say About Bill Stewart's Future At WVU?
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 12:14 PM EST
in HCBS
56 comments
It is blatantly obvious from call-in shows, message boards and the Coaching Approval Meter, that a majority of WVU fans either want HCBS fired right now or are seriously leaning in that direction. [I am not in either of those camps.] At the end of the day, however, it does not matter what the hell we think about HCBS. It only matters what the players in the locker-room think about him.
If you go back to the night Smilin' Bill was hired, it was the players, specifically Patrick White, that first lobbied for Stewart to get the job. The administration ran with it and by about 3:30 that next morning, Smilin' Bill was our coach.
For me, Noel Devine's decision on his NFL future will be a good guage of how the players feel about this coaching staff and the program's future.
College athletes, more so than pros, must toe the company line about coaching decisions and the atmosphere within the lockerroom. Time after time the public does not hear about problems within a program until a player graduates or transfers to another school.
The current situation at Kansas and the start of the pre-season troubles at Michigan, are prime examples of players not opening up until they are out of the program. Last year we did see Patrick White show some frustration toward Mullen during the season but after the season there was nary a peep from anyone about HCBS or anyone else on the current staff.
The fans can lose faith in HCBS all they want and it won't matter much, if at all, in the win-loss record. However, if the players begin to doubt HCBS, it will obviously send the win-loss record into the tank.
It is obvious that you want to enter the draft when your value is at its peak. Devine would be well served to stay in the program and show NFL scouts that he can be more than a third down back. That being said, if Devine leaves for the NFL it will show me that there may be some doubt in the player's minds about the direction of the program. Devine leaving would show me that he only thinks he draft stock could fall with another year in the program.
What will he do and will it push me closer to losing faith in HCBS? Only time will tell.
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Not a bellweather test..
You can’t use Devine’s choice about going to the NFL as a test in this case. With the threat of salary caps for rookies being implemented as part of contract negotiations between the player’s union and the NFL – this year is expected to be a record for the number of juniors applying for the draft. While I agree it would show where loyalties are with regards to Stewart – this year especially it’s not any kind of clear indicator
Not the only test but a test nonetheless.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Completely agree w/ zhodd
1. I don’t think Devine’s choice is an overall team perspective of Stewart and direction of program.
2. The NFL rookie salary cap which will undoubtedly be implemented in the NFL will result in record numbers of Juniors coming out this season, even if they are perceived as 3rd down backs. I see Devine every bit as effective as Sproles.
His decision will have 100% to do w/ money, not direction of program or thoughts on Stewart.
Thanks a lot, Cbus.
I actually agree with you for once. Now I’m going to have to waste a sick day going to the doctor to make sure there’s not something horrible wrong with me.
by Country Roads on Nov 23, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Don't really care if the players like the coach...
as long as we win. Part of the right of passage for a college athlete is to hate their coach. Then they graduate and look back at how much they learned and how their life was shaped, and they come to admire their coach. Not always, but that’s the archetype.
Noel is going pro. He has to. He has children to support. The only question about him to NFL scouts is his size, and he’s not going to grow 4 inches and put on 35 pounds by sticking around another year.
They can hate him...
But do they think he is taking the program in the right direction?
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think Noel Devine truly gives a shit about Bill Stewart or the state of Mountaineer football?
by EatSchmittPitt35 on Nov 20, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions
Yes I think he cares.
If he doesn’t care, do you really want him playing for your team?
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with 5YS.
I’m not saying Devine is as concerned about the future of WVU football as many of us are, but players are, for the most part, fiercely loyal to their alma maters. It’s not like HS, or even the pros, where you have little choice where you end up. Yes, he may have other things on his mind, and he may not understand the big picture right now, but Devine picked WVU, which indicates that WVU means something to him, other than just a place to live while he waits on the NFL—-he could have done that anywhere, yet he chose Morgantown. So yeah, I think he wants WVU (and, by extension, Stew) to succeed.
by Country Roads on Nov 20, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think Devine’s decision will be purely based on money. The real indicator of Stew’s future at WVU will any exodus of assistants, in my opinion. If we see Casteel jump ship for FSU and others bail for equal positions, I think that’s a real indication that they can see the damage/incompetence from the inside and that they know things are sinking fast.
Cosign the Devine bit
He’s poor and has kids, man. How can a WVU fan—let alone someone who regularly writes about WVU—attempt to extract meaning from Devine’s impending will he / won’t he without inserting his financial crunch into the analysis?
by bicklefischerkane on Nov 20, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I think the coaching staff is more of an indication than players (who are, by the way, KIDS). Are there strong rumors about Casteel going to FSU? Hadn’t heard that.
That would make some people happy.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 2:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know I pick on you 5th
but I really don’t think this makes much sense either way.
Devine’s decision on the draft is about Noel and his family. It will not say anything definitive about stew.
We have no way of knowing if somehow Stew or next year’s team does affect his decision. Even if it does we’ll have no idea which way it was swaying him and how much. There simply too many other, and much more important, factors.
by Beamer'sGoiter on Nov 20, 2009 1:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If I wanted to avoid...
Criticism I would not put my ideas out there for the world to see.
Y’all can pick on me all you want just so you are fair in your beatdowns of my opinions.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 2:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Devine would be well served to stay in the program and show NFL scouts that he can be more than a third down back.
That’s 100% false. Go ahead and get your money.
Just as Simple Jack said, another year isn’t going to make him taller. He’s a third-down back, kick returner, and niche weapon at the next level. That’s all, and there’s good money in that. But you only have so many years of health and skill, so you might as well get paid for it ASAP.
He’s gone.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 20, 2009 1:18 PM EST reply actions
For the most part, I agree.
I don’t know if it’s 100% locked, but in no way would I be surprised or angry if he left. For all the reasons already mentioned, you can’t blame him for leaving early. Based on that, I don’t think you can infer anything about the program. Now, if he returns, I think you could maybe read something positive into the situation. But as far as signs of the apocalypse, players transferring, coaches leaving, and a decline in recruiting would be worse signs.
by Country Roads on Nov 20, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Not 100% false.
How can you say that if he comes back and has a great year that it is a bad thing? How big is MJD?
Devine can be an every down back if shows a little more in college.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 1:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
MJD is much thicker than Noel.
Darren Sproles would be the comparison I would make.
by Country Roads on Nov 20, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Vitals
Devine: 5’8", 176 lbs.
MJD: 5’7" 208 lbs.
Sproles: 5’6" 185 lbs.
Each is quite a bit thicker than Devine.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 20, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
He could put on more weight. Devine can bench more than most guys on the team so he understands the importance of building mass.
Kevin Jones packed on weight for b-ball and Devine is likely to do the same over the next few years.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 3:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why?
Kevin Jones was transitioning from a freshman to sophomore. That’s his first full season of lifting weights. Devine is 176 lbs. after already going through that transition. Why is he suddenly going to get bigger?
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 20, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Slaton did it. Zeroue did it.
Not saying that Devine necessarily could or will do it, but it’s possible to bulk up at this point in one’s career.
by Country Roads on Nov 20, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
I guess I didn't realize.....
that there was even a question of whether he would stay or go. I considered him gone 3-4 games into the season, after seeing him take over a couple of games.
Not sure what else there is to learn about Stewart
He is a wonderful person, who is an excellent steward of the administrative side of the program. He is a competent-to-good recruiter, depending on how much credit he gets for Doc et al’s efforts and “closing” and such.
The players seem to enjoy playing for him, and the media enjoy covering him, though his explanations often raise questions instead of answering them—and what’s with the frequently dispatched, preemptive defensiveness?
During crucial points in games—especially big games—he crawls inside his rectum: the fake punt in ’08 Villanova and the 4th down in ’09 Marshall are the only big, crunch-time decisions during his tenure that register as anything more aggressive than “damn conservative”.
When it comes to hiring staff and maybe even the recruiting of marginal players, he trusts his gut and network of friends and no amount of evidence for good or ill will convince him the gut-friends opinion might need re-evaluating. This also goes for high-level decisions regarding who plays, of which exhibit A is Stew trusting Brandon Hogan returning punts despite Hogan’s consistently bad judgment regarding which punts to field and which to get away from (and by how far to get scarce!), and exhibit B is Wes Lyons playing.
What else is there to learn, and what could happen to change any of what we know?
by bicklefischerkane on Nov 20, 2009 1:32 PM EST reply actions
Addendum to the "conservative in big games" bit
The fourth-and-8 in the Cincy game is not aggressive, in my opinion. He didn’t trust Bitancurt outside 40 yards (which is completely baseless, but whatever), so one can argue that kicking there would be aggressive for Stewart. But really, at that point in the game, there was little good reason to believe that the offense had another trip inside the 30 in them, so he concluded—correctly, I submit—that they really had to make hay while there.
by bicklefischerkane on Nov 20, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
If he comes back...
I think it says something about the player’s loyalty to HCBS.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 1:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Respectfully disagree. If he comes back, it is 100% because he thinks he can make more money with another year of experience. Even if he love stew he’s not going to waste millions of dollars to come back just out of loyalty. There’s not a player on the team, down to the scout team that would not go to the NFL the second they are legally allowed if they know they will be drafted highly.
That’s not a reflection on stew at all. But loyalty to stew won’t play into his decision. You don’t think Joe Alexander I loyal to huggins? It’s all about the Benjamins, homie.
by The 25314 on Nov 20, 2009 2:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sam Bradford?
He would have been the first pick but wanted to win a national title and felt loyal to Stoops. Granted, the decision was a bad one but injuries happen.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 2:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe to win a national title, maybe to be the 2nd person to win back to back heismans, maybe because he didn’t want to go to the lions, maybe he thought he wouldn’t go #1 and that was his goal. I never heard “loyalty to stoops” as a reason. Personally I think it was for a title.
But devine doesn’t have a shot at a title next year, and more importantly didn’t come from a wealthy home and has 3 kids.
I’m defending stew here. If devine leaves, it’s not cause of stew. But also vice versa.
by The 25314 on Nov 20, 2009 2:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is crazy
Pac Man Jones was not disloyal to Rich Rodriguez because he went to the draft, nor was Johnny Dingle to Bill Stewart. And Pat White didn’t stick around for his fifth year because of loyalty to Stewart; White was loyal to him, of course, but he returned for his senior year because of some mixture of the NFL Draft being an unrealistic option and pride in graduating college.
by bicklefischerkane on Nov 20, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Not saying they lack loyalty.
I just think it says a lot if Devine decided to come back next year.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 2:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Says a lot about what?
The only way I can see him come back is if Johnson is fired and somehow we bring in Trickett. Other than that, it’s either another year of Johnson (which hasn’t worked at all so far) or learning a new system under a young, up-and-coming coach. Neither scenario is very promising.
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 20, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
I see your point.
If Devine comes back, I think it’s reasonable to infer that he hasn’t completely lost faith in the coaching staff. If he thought everything was going in the tank, he would realize that he wouldn’t have the opportunity to prove himself further.
by Country Roads on Nov 20, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
A couple innocent questions for everyone:
if coaching staff is more of a barometer of stew, what do we take from magee, rod smith, Greg Frey, Tony dews, bruce tall and barwis going to Michigan. Rod smith chose to be a qb coach over offensive coordinator.
Also to the fiercly loyal alum (rich rod and barwis not withstanding) what about Dan Mozes, Jamal addae, pat beilen coaching at Michigan.
What do we make of dingle, reynaud and slating leaving stew?
Answer: it’s all about the benjamins.
by The 25314 on Nov 20, 2009 2:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
All those coaches made their decision before Stew got the job. That means they wanted something rather than possibly nothing if a new coach came in with a new plan.
Very cynical view to say it is all about the benjamins. Is the 25314 really a secret identity for Puffy or Mace?
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 2:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My comment about the coaching staff being a better barometer was based on cash and not loyalty. I was trying to express that if assistants started to realize that the program was about to go into the crapper, they would likely start to bail rapidly into order to preserve their reputations and move on to a program with a more positive direction. Being an assistant attached to a winning head coach opens more doors, and wallets, than being an assistant to, say, the Krag, Sr.
To be frank, I think the best (only?) real indicator of a program’s future is how the team looks on the field, game after game.
by The Double U on Nov 20, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
The best indicator
Are W’s and L’s.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 20, 2009 2:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The argument that we would now have was hashed out to the nth degree after Louisville/Cincinnati. I think I’d rather just agree to disagree, haha…
by The Double U on Nov 20, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Devine owes WVU and Ol' Smilin Bill NOTHING
Devine’s done his duty…I fully expect him to go pro, encourage him to go pro, and wish him all the best.
by rumplestiltskin on Nov 20, 2009 3:39 PM EST reply actions
The best indicator
Win’s and Losses, as 5YS said.
Billy Boy better start beating some good opponents next year or the leash will start to get shorter.
The whole Ws and Ls debate
Are all wins created equal? Of course not. The Big East, in the past two years, has been terribly, terribly weak. That’s what this whole Ws and Ls debate has any steam. We have played one ranked opponent in the two years, and lost. We have a chance in the next two weeks to make a splash. I hope it happens. If it doesn’t, how can you still justify the wins and losses theory?
by Dr. Charley West on Nov 21, 2009 12:42 AM EST reply actions
Last sentence
The fact that we win or lose the next two games has no impact on this debate. The debate is all about if a win is a good or bad thing. To me, a win is always a good thing, no matter what.
The win may show areas of weakness but you won the game. It all comes down to this, would you rather win or lose?
I would rather win.
If you are talking about the polls, then I somewhat agree with you. Not all wins are created equal in the polls. I only somewhat agree with you because most years there are only 1 or 2 undefeated BCS teams. In most years if you win all your games you will be playing for the national title.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 21, 2009 10:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Holy hell, I hate the ugly win/moral victory debate… this is one of those internet debates where both sides agree to the same ideas, but have different definitions for the terms, and want to fight to the death. Obviously no one would rather have a beautiful loss than an ugly win. Obviously some some games are good/bad indicators of the strength of the program, regardless of the scoreboard. Christ almighty, I wish the terms “ugly win” and “moral victory” were triggers for an automatic deletion…
by The Double U on Nov 21, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I hate it too.
Which is why everyone should just agree with me and move on.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 21, 2009 11:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Here’s something we can agree on: I’m look forward to the OSU-Meatchicken game about to start, I can’t wait to see that smug sonofabitch canned…
by The Double U on Nov 21, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Holy shit, that’s a lot of red in the stands at the Big House…
by The Double U on Nov 21, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I just texted...
Charley and country roads the same thing. I love it. I’m rooting for a meteor in this game.
Leave no doubt tonight! Leave no doubt tonight! No doubt! They shouldn't of played the Old Gold'n Blue.
by 5th Year Senior on Nov 21, 2009 12:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m trying to figure out how Adam Bednarik get to continue his career at Michigan. I guess he changed his name to this “Forcier,” but you’d think NCAA would have caught that.
Seriously, I don’t understand why the asshole doesn’t realize that he needs to go back to run-run-run and use that Robinson kid. It’s like he completely forgot the White-Louisville ’05-Nebraska East thing that made him his millions…
by The Double U on Nov 21, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Go Big Blue!!!
I hate OSU but that’s because I’m subjected to their miserable brand of football weekly. Obviously, not a fan of Rodriguez but I really don’t care about him anymore and have no ill will to Michigan (not a rival to WVU).
Therefore, I’d love to see Michigan beat the Bucks.
One more little thing.
You can only win the games that are on your schedule. Granted, Stew hasn’t done the best of that, but that’s beside the point. It’s hard to say “well, what would _______’s record be if they played in the SEC?” because really, you don’t know. There are just too many variables. That’s why you have to stick to wins and losses in the games you actually played.
by Country Roads on Nov 23, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
If I were Noel, I would not come back and play for a less than average offensive line. We get routinely dominated up front by average defensive lines. Most of the time Noel has to create his own hole and Jarrett has somone in his face on every pass play. Its the worst offensive line I’ve seen in Morgantown in a while. I suggest Johnson gets fired before Stewart. Do you think Stewart would get rid of someone? I doubt it.
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