Turnovers - An Invitation For Discussion
by WVUIE97 on Oct 2, 2009 12:37 PM EDT
in Things That Made Me Want To Throw My Shoe
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We all (or at least most of us) know how we were usually on the plus side of the TO battle (and one of the national leaders no less) under the previous staff. I'm just as frustrated as anyone else and I'm not making excuses with this post (at least not intentionally). BUT... I honestly don't know how you can lay the TO thing on the staff. They've been different each game (ECU-muffed punts, AU-INT's, and CU-fumbles) and be fair, one of the fumbles last night was on the D.
You can credit defensive coaches on the plus side of it for the positions they put the kids in, teaching stripping techniques, etc. Other than JB carrying the ball like he does (and the coaches have made plenty of points about that one themselves), I don't know what else the O coaches can do, other than the aforementioned drills. There really are just so many ways to carry a ball correctly and I'm pretty sure the coaches emphasize that. Correcting mis-communication between QB and receivers is one thing that you can lay on them and drilling into them the right decision to make in such and such situation. But ultimately, the players have to make that decision.
Maybe it IS a mindset thing that this staff isn't doing enough. I don't know. I'm not there everyday in meetings or practice. Just don't kid yourself to think they aren't concerned though. I'm really not trying to make excuses here. I'm asking a serious question. Other than the fact that coaches have to be ultimately accountable, how is it the coaches fault? Your thoughts...
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You're right that
The coaches aren’t to ble for each individual turnover. That is on the players.
However (to quote Steven A. Smith) 14 TOs is no coincidence. Neither are the costly penalties. This team lacks discipline and intensity. Mental toughness is a foreign concept to the majority of the team.
For all the talent Brown has he has maybe the least discipline of anyone.
When a team lacks fundamental execution and discipline the blame falls on the staff. You can have all the yards you want , but penalties and turnovers will get you beat by any decent team. It’s the basics that kill us.
Our teams used to always be more disciplined and fundamentally sound thantheir opponents. So far that appears to be Stew’s biggest failure.
by Beamer'sGoiter on Oct 2, 2009 1:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I would also argue
that the penalties we’ve been flagged for so far (without doing the research mind you), aren’t any worse than the previous staff. I wish I had a $1 for every unsportsmanlike or personal foul we got flagged for (disputable call, regardless) under the previous staff.
There is a difference in lack of disc in technique and lack of disc in terms of intensity. Ill take a flag or too that comes from trying too hard or wanting to make a big hit or play and just doing it a bit late.
A little too much aggressiveness is better than stupid mistakes and a lack of intensity imo.
by Beamer'sGoiter on Oct 2, 2009 1:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We're getting a bit off track, this is about turnovers
Not that you don’t make valid points, it’s just I’m too lazy at the moment to do the research involved in arguing penalties.
It’s called coaching. You instill these things in your team in camp and practice.
Remember how Stew punished the defense for not forcing turnovers in camp? He didn’t do the same when the offense commited them did he?
Maybe Stew is too soft.
After all, attitude reflects leadership.
by Beamer'sGoiter on Oct 2, 2009 1:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don't know, I wasn't there...maybe he did and didn't talk about it publicly
I’m not trying to be nasty or argumentative….just playing devil’s advocate
I’m just trying to give an example. EA said last night after half time the players said Stew’s talk wasn’t bad. She commented a few times abourt no intensity on our sidelines and players just ahnging out laughing and joking.
It’s a game and should be fun. But you also need to be focused. Coaches control the climate of the locker room and sidelines. You need both fun and focus at the right times. Maybe Stew is too much the anti-rod.
I know the fun part is part of why the fiesta win happened, but we also had intensity and focus that we haven’t had since.
by Beamer'sGoiter on Oct 2, 2009 1:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
very valid points
I agree, but I also think it ought to be somewhere in between the two. That’s just my opinion. There are arguments for and against both. I just find it odd that most don’t say the same things about Pete Carroll (not comparing abilities or results, just the style, so don’t start that argument) and he seems to be about the loosest coach there is (which also might explain the eggs USC have laid against vastly inferior teams the past few years.).
I completely agree with you. It’s all about balance.
Do you ever see USC come out flat? USC is never dominated and they usually blow inferior teams out with the exception of a pac 10 team or two who is familiar with them and get them at home.
Have we dominated an opponent since the fiesta bowl?
by Beamer'sGoiter on Oct 2, 2009 2:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
???
They were absolutely flat out of the gate the last two years at Oregon State and Washington.
by 5th Year Senior on Oct 2, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Oregon state is a notoriously tough environmemt plus it was a thursday night game against a top ranked team.
Our ranking is no longer motivation for the opposition.
Also they aren’t as good this year, plus uw has talent (eg Locker) and now has a good coach who knows carrol inside and out. Almost his entire staff came from usc.
USC comes out flat once a year. We do it week in and week out.
Usc aside, it’s a big problem for us.
by Beamer'sGoiter on Oct 2, 2009 4:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
USC
I just made this point in another post, but there are tremendous similarities. USC comes out flat against inferior competition several times a year. In fact you could argue everyone North of UF is inferior to USC and yet they still ALWAYS lose 1-2 games a year and have 2-3 other close games usually against much more inferior competition.
I think this team is more a reflection of JB’s lackadaisical style vs. White’s much more rigid business like approach ot the game.
Dropping the ball....
The entire team should carry a football around campus (unity) ! THey all drop the ball and will teach them to hold the ball at all times. The ball is very important. Even HCBS should carry a ball, cause they all drop the ball…
Its a win and I hope we learn from our mistakes…
A Fresh Idea
Since this is about turnovers, lets get back to that.
I think our turnover problem is much more complicated than just being flat. I think it comes from the type of players we have on offense and the type of offense we run. Don’t get me wrong, I love our guys (that came out wrong) and I love our style. But they do combine to make us more suceptible to TOs. We have a lot of guys (starks, sanders, Arnett, etc) who are fast, quick and slippery guys who could take it to the house on any play. Our offense is also designed to potentially score on most any play. So what happens is we have really good players in space, a LOT of whom are converted from another position, scrambling and trying to make big plays. That is where turnovers come in. If you add to that an absolute fearless QB, well, you get a few picks now and then. Think about the TD pass to Sanders vs. Colorado- that thing was threaded in there.
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